Hi all,

I am in the process of playing again, and just wanted to thank you all on the information listed on these forums. Just for a bit of background on myself:
I'm 20 years old in the Lancaster, PA area (p.s. If you're from the area PM me or AIM me at darkdrgn12) and am a pretty avid gamer, time permitting. I have 8 years in M:TG and about 9 as a decent chess player. Also other strategy/RP games, of course!

I was at a local shop (C&D Games) and saw a Mage Knight tourney being run. I have a lot of the Rebellion figures as I played it pretty much solely when it came out. I saw the new sculpts (especially the Reapers and the Solonavi!) and had to play again. My girlfriend loves the sculpts as well and we're now playing again.

Anyway, I must thank Borg (Hitman you too!) for my rekindled interest in playing. His description of the Guerilla Attack army was quite excellent and the controlling aspect instantly sold me (comparing it to a mono-blue control deck...). I have a few questions after playing a bit with it (the figures were NOT cheap, but worth it):
I've played with this version:

Solonavi Striker
Solonavi Destroyer
Techun
I don't mind this one as it's 3 solid figures with good mobility and can capitalize on a weak figure to gain pt. advantage (is Wind Minion Better here?).
------------------------
Borg's version:
Solonavi Striker
Wind Minion
Centaur Champion
***Horned Hatchetkrugg
I've played this too, but maybe I'm too inexperienced with it, but I can't get it to work. I find the Hatchetkrugg is dead weight a lot of the time. What am I doing wrong?
1. ML/Ram can be an issue, but I've been able to effectively play around it using the 14" range. However, it gets hard to close in to grab a smaller healer due to the multiple MLers tossing Ram guys, making it hard to snatch up a healer or something smaller. Suprisingly not many people here play any harrassers or other small one-hit snipe kills in ML/Ram. I know this could be a weakness vs. other armies, but against GA it's strong, is it not? What is the best way to circumvent this?
2. Swarm I've found to be not as much of an issue, using Solo Strike to beat off a supporting E@A or something similar and then just avoiding major conflict (using my Striker or Techun to keep mass armies at bay). This match is hard sometimes if it's swarm/charge as I've messed up on calculating the charge range a few times and it put a hurting on my striker.

I'd love some input. I also like the Charge/Swarm or ML/Ram for 200pts, but GA really fits me.

Tom

Your first version is interesting. It is a fairly meaty version but it does not have the best way to deal with ML. I have yet to play Borg version because I just do not care for Windy. Sure there are times when I wish I had him but fo rthe most part I do ok without him. It is when going against another striker that it becomes nice to have him. I do understand your feelings about the Krugg but he is to handy against bone toss and ML/Ram. My version I play is:
Striker
Techun
Wyvern
War Hatched Krugg on Drake
Podo
299pts
Now me being a little under point wise is an issue with GA but I have yet to have a real problem with it. So now to your question
1: ML/Ram is in combo with Scorpems or some other range unit. My advice is capture the rammer. YOu can do it with either the Wyvern or by charging with the drake to the rear arc. Once the rammer is captured the range units and techos become alot less effective. You can no longer be the target of a range attack and it can work as a moving wall. He slings skellies on you, then break and deal shake off. If you capture with the Wyvern then they have to base you to free the fig. You deal venom ( most people use skellies or DZ*) and that will take care of most of the other flinged units. Double points for a rammer helps alot too.

2: chargers are harder to deal with ( see "the tank" thread about the GA worst nightmare). Normal swarm I do not see as a problem but chargers are much harder to deal with. If the guy is running the right chargers then he will be able to take any piece out just about in one turn. If he has a healer or SB then that is what you will have to go for. Charge is one of the hardest match ups. Against charger is when I do wish I had a MB since they lie to hide behind walls while approaching. Using deep water ( the biggest piece you can find) can help swing things in your direction for awhile. I personaly use blocking ( to hop over and it does work better than hindering) and deep water.

Hope this helps

Thanks! I can see where the Krugg is useful, I'm presuming to ram skeletons out of WM (if I'm wrong please tell me, I need to get better somehow), but can't you just pick off a skeleton and play the run around game? That's how I've played against bone-toss, albeit versus not the best players, but good nonetheless. It's hard to chase down 3 figures with 12 or more move. Now in regards to the "Tank" (I like this army a bunch BTW), how will this beat GA if the GA player just runs a lot? I can see it drawing a bunch...I know it moves 12, but no range = no way to actually hurt a Solonavi Striker or Techun if they run, right? It's not the best way to play, but it's not a one in the loss column either. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

First off the Krugg I use is the charger not the rammer. Either one works but I just like the protection charge can offer.

Now the Tank: Here are the problems with dealing with the Tank. With Force March (FM) it can set outside of Techun range and then base if it wants. Techun can either attack and then risk the chance of three or four chargers attack or run. Unless you hop terrain the formation will still be ableot track you down. The Striker is the one piece that realy gives you a chance. Now if he has the EGM in base then you have to use FL and hope you roll a 7 because if you do not he will be set in charge range ready to pounce. He can also base with the Fell (14 in move) and then set the chargers up to charge. There are a number of different tactics he can use that will allow him to get B2B with the Striker. The EGM allows himto be aggressive since he can heal his chargers back up. The army forces a GA player to push alot to avoind losing a piece. Unlike a lot of other armies one might face the tank can take out a unit in one turn. He is able to do 11 clicks of damage as long as he hits and does not roll box cars ( then it will jump to 12 clicks as you know). There are not alot of armies out there that will be able to handle the tank. It is an army in which if you miss those important rolls there is no way your getting out of the hole you are in.

There really is not an easy target in the army other than a SB. So if you could get the SB and/or wound the EGM then you have a chance. You will be able to out run him but then it is going to come down to a dice roll to see who wins. Picking where to fight is another key against the tank. If you can get some deep water between you and it you might be able to by yourself the time you will need to get some good shots. The Striker in its bound clicks could help to but that is getting a little on the dangerous side.

I have yet to play a version with a healer so that might swing the edge back to a GA army a little bit. I have seen a Creator/Striker version that did quit well. It would have a problem though against Bone toss or the such.

Gotcha. With GA is it not less figures the better (less targets, but more useful "big" figures). Like:
Solonavi Striker
Solonavi Creator

I know it falls short of 300 (add some filler guy to fix...suggestions are good).

It's not real succeptible to swarms or charges and it can deal upto 9 clicks in a turn on a concentrated unit. Please show me the error of my ways. :)

you are right it is quality and not quanity. GA needs to have figs (or some way) of dealing with multipule threats. The Creator/Striker combo is a tough one to play and it can dish out some heavey damage. When you are trying GA you have to find the figs that fit you. Borg liked Windy but I did not because it did not fit me. Techun fits my style of play. Soaring gunners can be used in GAs. Some guys are using healers in theirs. THe army even leads into the direction of multipule loner pieces working in away that you might see to often. THere is a thread in the final releases maybe that is a multi MBer army that you might want to look into. You can get alot of good ideas from it.

Creator/Striker combo: Ok if you are going to play it I have some suggestions for you. Now I have not played it myself but one of my good friends had to face it in the semis of a tournie. You can be more aggressive with the Striker. The Creator can heal so you should be ok. Just make sure you do not give th eother guy 3 good shots at you. Do not push the Creator early. INV is to good to lose it from a push. Pull a few net armies and test it at home with it. This will help you learn both armies. IT will help with match ups and lets you see how both armies work. You might even find another army you like or a different build or combination that yo like. You are not going to face alot of net armies but alot of the stuffin those armies you will face. If you do not have a fig that is in one of those armies proxy it. Pull the stats of this site, write it on a note card and use a paperclip to keep track of clicks of life. Now this is going a little over board ot some but other like to be prepared. I do not know at what level you play at or would like ot play at. I am in a group now that plays at a fairly high level. We have fun but we play hard. Any other questions just ask.

Hiya, Tong. Thanks for your comments.

Like Barrel said, just find a combo that works for you. I personally like to have 2 chargers when I can, because this setup just flat out owns bone-toss. They throw something at you every turn, you charge and kill it every turn. *burp*

You really shouldn't have to run, just set yourself up in a 'leapfrog' formation, and you can engage on pretty commanding terms (IMO).

On the other hand, Barrel's techun/striker 1-2 punch is a real nasty too. Corrupted priest is a good choice if you decide you want a healer. Back those two up with a priest, and you have a double nasty. :eek:

How about
Striker
Techun
* Priest
*** Horned Hatchetkrugg

Or, if you want to kick the ### out of swarms,

Striker
Pyre Spirit
*** Soaring Gunner
*** Horned Hatchetkrugg
** Leech medic

What's the medic for, a healer? Naw, most of the time she's just bait. You could just as easily throw a * shade in there, but the fact that you COULD heal makes them play a bit differently, whether you want to use it to heal or not. Bait is bait. *shrugs*

As for the tank *grimace* ... well, this is just taking Borg's swarm/charge one step further. Ditch the swarm part of it, upgrade the charge part. As barrel has already told you, it's a real beeyatch. (And he should know, he's faced it enough times!)

Give me an idea of where you want to go with it, and I'll try my best to help out; as I'm sure my buds here will do also. Welcome back.

Carry On, Lads.
Hitman

By reading through the forums (doing a search for striker/creator specifically) I've seen this idea has been tossed before. Some of the major problems I've had with GA is it's inability to assassinate a figure early (big time problem with armies like The Tank, where no harrassers like *shade exist to plunk.) This is where I came up with the creator/striker combo. If they gang up on a single figure, even if they take some heat (nothing the creator can't handle I'd think...especially when they combine for 14" range each). Only problem is a failed break away. If you can kill an early figure (what army has every figure that can handle 9 clicks of damage...I know they'll hide their healers and whatnot, but still...). After you kill one figure, it's not too difficult to avoid others. Barrel, you said one made the top 4. What beat it, and how? BTW, the Centaur Champion is pretty good! He's like d@mned cost efficient (to reuse a gaming coined phrase).

Borg or Hitman, if you're reading, do you agree or not agree from your experience with GA that more figures causes more headaches? The less you have to target the easier it is to counter-move, but it's a double-edged sword, as they can focus on your only resources...hmm...

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. More figures cause more headaches, since you would be constantly worrying about somebody being threatened.

On the other hand, however, less figures cause more headaches as well, since you have less figures to threaten with and use your actions on (pushing becomes a major issue, obviously).

And, like you said, it gives them less targets to worry about. As Murphy said in his laws of Combat Operations:

"Teamwork is essential; it gives them someone else to shoot at."

The trick is, find a very narrow happy medium. Enough units to seriously threaten with, every turn, but not so many that you have unused actions and sacrifice quality for quantity.

My personal thoughts on the striker/creator? It scares me. Lots of firepower, but likely as not you would wind up pushing away your creator's best slots. IMO, best to pick one or the other and build a solid team around it.

IDEALLY (and this rarely happens), a 'perfect' GA (IMO) would comprise 2 ranged threats, 2 chargers, and a corrupted priest.

But, just like your kids' Christmas lists, good luck fitting all that in there on a limited budget, especially since just any old ranged threat, or any old charger just won't do.

Instead, you have to pick and choose carefully which ones to omit, and why you are omitting it instead of the other one, and be prepared to adjust your strategy/tactics accordingly.

Find your balance, Daniel-san. ;)

Carry On, Lads.
Hitman

Ok then,

Striker (core attacker)
Centaur Champ (the best charger...IMHO anyway)
***Horned Hatchetkrugg (I still think he may be better as a *Corrupted Priest, but can the Centaur keep away all small basers?)
Wind Minion

Borg's seems to fit the bill nicely, but lacks a healer. Hmm...testing will be the only way. I've grabbed a swarm/charge net, a F&P net, and the Tank to test against. I just need a solid ML/Ram list for 300pts. Hmm, I'll look.

The thing you want to watch about the centaur champ is, don't let him take 3 clicks or else he loses his easy-break ability. The nice thing about the mounted chargers is they keep easy-break no matter how beat up they are. Use the champ with caution.

As for a ML/Ram, here's 42up's 300 point fling-n-ping:

Formation 1(can be moved seperately)
*technomancer
*technomancer
Scarabet

Formation 2
*skeleton
*skeleton
*soul stealer
***warhatchet krugg
**throttle worm

Loners-
***nightmare reaper
*shaman
*shade

Let me know what you come up with, and how it works out.

Later Man.

Ok the guy los in the fisrt round to a rammer and some of the bounding kruggs with a krugg seer and some shades. If yo ugo to the con/event forum and look uder B.o.B you'll find out what happened there. He went the rest of the even without losin guntil he reached the final 4. He went up against GolemPower's WL army. It is listed in the final releases of the army review forum. It was basicly Scarabet ( LE scorpem gunner) and I believe 4 other scorpem gunners*** and a krugg seer. He also had some imp in there also. GP ( he is in my play group) said it was a very tough match up and that one reason he won was that the guy would not push. Now being able to pop off one fig in one turn is very nice. The chargers in "The Tank" all take 9 clicks to kill. One shot with the Creator and one with the Striker andhe has oneless charger. The problem is that EGM will keep the defense up to at least a 19. 7 or better is good odds but it is not a gimme. The Fell could also prevent getting a shot off. You play it right ideally this is how you would like ot work it. Place the Striker and Creator in a place that would make it very hard for a double based fig to have a spot to land. Deep water and figure bases placed correctly you might be able to do this. Get a shot off from both the Striker and the Creator and knock off a charger. From there I would try to work for the next shot at either the Fell or the SB. You could use you filler piece to prevent charges but watch out for a capture attempt. Once that fodder is captured you are in a very hard spot but it could play into your hands.

If you can take out a charger and he does caputre the fodder that is 2 less pieces he will have to attack with. You might be able to continue to pick at him from then on. Chargers is why I play with deep water and big deep water at that. If you are going to play this combo of Creator/Striker then you must keep the Striker alive. I think in both loses this is how he lost. The Creator is not very hard to keep alive for 50 minutes but the Striker is.

Thanks for all the help guys. I've practiced a bit with the creator/striker and find that it isn't too bad. It's hard to play, but it can deal 9 clicks, and after that they will overcommit and make mistakes (well, good players might not).

With 9 clicks you can knock off a nice size fig. One that is in a good 50 pt range. If you can get in that that type of lead then you are going to be setting good. You are then in the driver's seat. Once there you can clean the table alot of the times.