This is no new revelation, but it is something to chew on a bit. Well, I find it quite intriguing at least.

While I was at B.O.B. which was a fairly large tournament I saw this effect come about in two armies, both of which made it to the finals. The first used nearly entirely Troll Artillerists and the other nearly all Scorpem Gunners. It seemd to me at first these wouldn't fly or could they? As I thought about it further it would seem something that is entirely loaded down with really efficient figures could be quite effective. At first it seem Overkill, but then later Redundancy hence why I call it what I do. Generally, It would seem the phenomanon would work something like this.

(All these combinations of really effective figures fit in 300pts.)

6 Sislith Trackers*** w/6pts (Sorry, Fox)
6 Scorpem Gunners*** w/18pts
6 Fell Reapers*** w/42pts
7 Nightmare Reapers*** w/6pts
7 Troll Artillerists*** w/34 pts
8 Blade Golems*** w/12pts
8 Heavey Lancers* w/ 20pts
9 Blade Golems** w/3pts
9 Troll Artillerists** w/3pts
10 Troll Artillerists* w/10pts
12 Amotep Gunners*** w/12 pts
15 Elf-At-Arms*** w/15pts
16 Elf-At-Arms** w/12pts
21 Utem Guardsman*** w/6pts

Well, I assume you get the idea. I don't know, but I'd be pretty scared of 21 Utems. Hehe. Of course, you'd have to modify this all just a little bit to fit in a FMer or a Shade, but you get the idea of overkill with one really good figure.

Feasible? What do you all think?

The only feasible ones would be either mast moving chargers, bounders, or long rangers. The problem with 8" moving melee is that without proper harrassment, they will have a hard time pinning down their opponent.

The feasible ones being:

6 Sislith Trackers*** w/7pts
6 Scorpem Gunners*** w/18pts
6 Fell Reapers*** w/42pts
7 Nightmare Reapers*** w/6pts
9 Heavey Lancers* w/ 20pts
9 Troll Artillerists** w/3pts
12 Amotep Gunners*** w/12 pts

Part of the power of this strategy is that you can usually predict how your opponent will attack. They can't prioritize targets (like tying up a healer, etc) because every target is, in and of itself, equal in value. Therefore, your opponent will probably do one of two things:

1)Focus on the one that's closest, or
2)Focus on the one that's already taken the most damage

By reducing your opponent's options in targeting, you can to some extent dictate where his forces go.

The scariest one of those is probably:
6 Fell Reapers*** w/42pts
Because 42 pts is exactly enough for a ***Nightmare Reaper.

This entire army can move 14" in the first turn. It includes a charger in case something particularly nasty gets in the rear arc of one of the Fells.

Interesting strategy....nothing is more valuable than anything else, so one loss doesnt really "destroy" your army. The predictibility factor further shifts the tide in your favor. Reducing your opponent's options, and making yourself less vunerable...i like it:D

however, because it over-emphasizes the units strengths. This being whatever, range, charge, etc. However, at the same time, it also over-emphasizes the weaknesses of the particular units as well. This being low defense (as is the problem with artillerists) or other things.

I would love to try the one with the Sisliths (which has 6, not 7 points left over by the way), but alas, I only own the two I regularl field in 300+ battles.

Interesting concept, and with all the mounted figures with Toughness, it could really work out. Figures that do not have those two qualities, you are likely to get wittled down to fast.
The Sislith would be almost ideal IMHO, since whenever the opponent bases one, it can break away on a 2+, and one or two others fire a salvo into the now freestanding enemies.

General Stormfox

You said it all right here - an army packed with efficient figs is very effective.

What it's missing is flexibility, at least in so far as the individual fig isn't flexible on its own. This is most evident in the single base melee fig armies you list, and (no surprise) least evident in the mounted armies that have bound/charge, which are inherently flexible by virtue of their SA and being mounted (now that the new move rules and shakeoff exist).

Besides your examples it can be argued that the melee army that won nationals last year IIRC (Utems, Blades and a Shade), is very close to your Overkill/Redundant model.

Hmmm... it could be said that Redundancy wins over Synergy in MK Rebellion. Fewer (none?) individual points of weakness.

Have we here witnessed the birth of the definition of a new archetype?

Sounds like it, Baldauran, and while it has maybe being brought into reals life here, I have been at the receiving end of it at the hands of your son. Man that Scorpem Gunner army sure is nasty. Maybe you'd better have him bring it to AS on the 23rd so I can have a crack at it with my nationals army...

;-)
Bri

This is a totally new and orginal way of thinking...I haven't heard this anywhere else yet.

It sounds sound, you know what I mean?

As long as you have the right figure picked out to use this idea with.

Hmmmmmmmmmm....

20 yellow skeletons for 200, anyone?

(ok, ok,...you DO need at LEAST one yellow grave digger... say 17 yellow skeletons, one blue skeleton, and one yellow grave digger....Hmmmmmm)

Just extending the Concept another step.....

What is stopping you Mixing and Matching?

Take 100pts of this really good unit, splash it with 100 pts of this really good unit and 100 of that one?

I don't want to give away too much about the lines that I'm working on, but think about something LIKE this:

3 ***Blade Golem
2 ***Scorpeum Gunner
5 *ESA

297Pts (well thats off the top of my head, so add a podo for 300)

This gives you a bit of range, some enhanced F/L, some meaty Hand to Hand, and a Semi Swarm.

I hope you get the concept.

This is just another way at looking at building armies. I have seen people employ it frequently, so I cannot take credit for it. I just managed to mull over the idea long enough to present it in a fashion here. If anything, this is just a reawakening to an idea that was lost, but I question if it ever was lost at all. ;)

Is redundancy more valuable than synergy or versitility? This is something else for us to think about.

The mix match is a good idea, but mixing and matching too much will lose the desired effect.

It would seem redundancy is just an extension form of what is presented in Swarm Armies i.e. super-efficient figures crammed in with every point, but as has been said, this breeds just as much weakness as strength; however, the question we should ask is whether the new stength outweighs the weaknesses i.e. can the strength be used to beat the opponent before it is able to use the weakness against you.

I will think about it more, and I agree that the mounted units have the most potential.

I thought I'd present the armies that spurred this thought.

First, Golempowers Wisconsin Lightning Dance:
Scarabet
Scorpem Gunner*** x4
Krugg Seer
Imp** x2

Second, Luke's Revolving Door (I hope I got that name right; sorry if I did not.)
Troll Artillerist* x8
Emerald Glade Mystery

PS: Jayhurst, the skeletons won't work unless you have some shyft to help out with actions.

I agree that the Mounted units seem to lend themselves to this type of army but I feel that most of them are a little too high costed meaning limited numbers, and this in its self attacks the concept.

You want multiples, but this isn't effective if you can only have 4 or so.

I also feel that as a general guideline (its not always going to be the case) that units with ranged attacks will be better suited for this type of roll, or that the unit is going to have to "swarm" (be very cheep).

Perhapse my previous example wasn't quite the best one, and perhapse I should have suggested 4 ***Gunners w/ 5 ESA to give a bit more of the feel of the idea.

Hmm...I have some ideas for OverKill/Redundancy.

300 Point Armies:

30 * Fodders
-----------------
12 *** Fighting Automations w/12 pts.
-----------------
30 * Lizard Men



I really like Fodders. Basically Goblin Vols. but twice the point and about twice the strength. Imagine 30 of the little guys chasing after you.

I don't know about anyone else, but I think the Fighting Automations are very strong for their point value. Having 12 of them is nice enough, but with 12 extra point you can even throw in a * Shade.

Lizard Men aren't anything amazing, but still...look at them. 8 attack 2 damage 10 inch movement for 10 points? That's not too bad. Add some deepwater terrain and you have a viable army.

What do you all think of these?

Fodders are strong... you can push them to capture (as a formation attack) on the click before beserk and take out big nasties.

I had a Chaos mage taken out in this manner.

20 or 30 of them sounds scarey, but I think they need some sort of support.

I think redundancy is a great new focus for armies, however, it has been said already and bears saying again: that piece's strengths will be multiplied and its weaknesses will too.

As an example, all those tough scorpems do look imposing, but what you are lacking is MOVEMENT and actions. Scorpems in formation only move 5" at a time. Scorpems when apart mean only half the army moves.

Throw a formation of fast swarm/charge, a formation of moderately fast launchers with a clurch, and some harassers or even mancatchers, and those scorpems will have an extremely rough time.

Heck, even a quickness army like shades, mancatchers, nightfiends and death merchants would give that army fits. You can only push a tough scorpem so many times before it really starts to show wear and tear....

I do sincerely applaud the creative thinking though!! Deserves a platinum star instead of a gold ;)!