For week one of the Vampire wars I read through the scenario. The way it is worded there are a heck of a lot more monsters than a normal standard game (red tokens and more than 6 tokens)

Since I really don't like playing dungeons I decided to play a fun over powered army

The Swarm (100 pts):

(action toadies and chest poppers)
Podo
Goblin vol*
Elven Recruit*
Goblin Canibal* (he has vamp)

(fighters)
Utem Guardsman***
Det. Zombie*
Magestone Lord*

(Support)
Graverobber*
Leech medic**

100 pts exactly, giving me 9 actions. This allowed me to move all my figures into the dungeon turn one, and then swarm them with 8 MS tokens the next turn.

It is impossible for your opponent to ever attack you with a MS unless you let him, and the only way he can attack you is buy going through all the MS(this is not going to happen)

You get free run of the dungeon, opening chests, taking potshots with your magestone lord at their figs through the walls.

Any monsters they wound, you just break away with and send them over to your side to finish off denying them the XP they need to level.


I killed my first round opponents entire party by the end of my 4th turn!

The only damage I took the entire tournament was 1 critical miss, and some chest traps going off. I had each of my opponents on the ropes starting on the second turn with no hope of recovery by the 4th or 5th.

I don't think that this style of army is beatable unless your opponent has at least 7 actions to counteract yours.

The only fig that gave me any kind of trouble was 1 oppenents Anunub's Shield. After it took 1 click of damage it had a 17 defense. I kept it busy until a red token popped next to it and a red bone golem finished it off.

If you play this army you want good attackers in the MS pool and very high number chests (traps mean nothing to you, and monsters are just more stuff to throw at the opponent!)

I used:

det zombie*
zombie hound**
marsh zombie* (only 10 pt figure available)
nighstalker***(great fig for killing!)
nighstalker*
boneGolem***
Nighblade**
nightblade***(for the 2 at 30 pts tokens)

Their may be better choices but I don't have a big selection of Necropolis figs.

While this is a legal strategy I feel its really in rather poor taste, yes you can win with it but I wish it was something that Wizkids had done away with. Enforcing a action limit per 100pts(say 4) would nicely solve the problem. No offense to you Bshugg, its a legal tactic and something players should be aware of.

Gasp that is very very close to the little stunt I was going to pull my only differance is I have one hero.

Anyway, how did you get past the MS on the way out?

You're lucky you didn't play anyone with a powerhouse team. (a 100-point team of mine has taken out over 600 points of MS)

An ANNUMB'S SHEILD????? What kind of a team has a 84 point 12 range guy on it? Range over ten is pointless in dungeons and Flame lightning is mostly as well.

Does your group play dungeons much? What whould you do against:

Lv2 Hitash
Lv2 Chaotic Grimm
Lv1 Zene
Podo

Keep in mind that the more MS that attack, the faster I get levels. The NS doesn't have any really scary guys without Vamp. Maybe a det. Zombie or Nightstalker, but unless you get the 1st strike with enough to kill one of my heros in one turn you efforts will be wasted. I have four actions, which is enough to attack twice with Grimm and Levat, get a level with Zene. and ensure one MS token never gets near me.

Excellent army. I think you have a very clever and legal army. If anybody has poor taste it is WK that allows this as a legal strategy. I try to keep some descency (sp?) so I usually have only 7 actions on my 100pt armies. The problem is slightly less this time b/c only NS mage spawns were allowed but in a game where red tokens and any MS are allowed then your opponent really has no chance. Not even if he uses big guys like Hitash, etc... I have propposed I while ago that it was not a good idea to have rebellion figures as heroes mainly for this reason and I was ferociously flamed. Druss's idea could take care of the problem (I would still rather have no rebellion "heroes"). As it has been said before, MKD is not a tournament level game. Nice beer and pretzels game. :mad:
The DM: you can always prove me wrong but I don't think a powerhouse team has much chance against the swarm (especially, if the players have similar skill level). Again, this time only NS were allowed but, otherwise, a red token can bring a Hierophant into play and I am not sure how low level heroes can handle that. And, the swarm uses the MS as allies so it may play cleverly rather than just throw MS at you to "give you the points".
Playing with my friends, we only use heroes (rebellion only as MS). In a tournament, I'll pack my swarm, red tokens and powerful MS, just as you tried to do. Congrat.

I won my week 1 just yesterday and that very sam stategy was demolished by 3 combos of heros. Hitash levat and Barber Hurgg with MK Alment-lan in back cause the spawn didn't have a chance and by the time I was finished I had 2 5th Lvl heros that massacred their swarm.Oren and Wylune swept away the same swarm much the way I did. and Hurgg, Alment Lan, and Erithia Starsdawn Shedded the spawn with enhanced F/L. same tatics as bshrugg completely different outcome.

(rummages around for the Tough Counter)

Your right! If you roll a 12 on the toughest token a heirophant could pop out. (provied you have a ten and five pointer around) Realistically speaking, the average roll is a seven or three for 85. Probable Mage Spawn: 2 Tough troll Zomb. and one tough Zomb. What happens: I kill one troll in a one-two from hitash and grimm and Zene sneaks the Zombie, while podo moves toward the zombies. Next turn I'll kill the other one and Zene. will do in the zombie.

But, just for fun, what if a Tough got a 12 on me?
Thats 3 for 160. MS: Zombie Baron and Two tough Troll Zomb. I would charge everyone into the Zombie Baron (if I've had one level) I'll kill it right away. Then on each of the following turns I'll attack the Trolls (double team) and almost gain a level for each one.

So, in summary, I would love for you to feed, I mean spawn, all the mage spawn to me/on me.

The DM: If your opponent is feeding you 600 pts of MS than their is a flaw in there playing ability. You are correct that the plan can backfire and you can end up just feeding levels to your opponent. The trick is in the timing of your attack. Despite your boasting, There isn't a 100 pt army around that can deal with 9 attackers coming in at once with out a great deal of luck. with 9 actions you have the ability to convert 4-5 tokens and still attack with the 4 best monsters that are revealed. Your army is deadly if it gets the jump on individual or small groups of monsters, but with the action deficit I don't see this happening. Also with the scenario rules, nightstalkers, det. zombies, bone golems and zombie hounds pack a decent amount of punch to take out a hero in a single round.


Our group does play a lot of Dungeons, just not me. I dislike the game in general. The player using the Anunub's shield admitted it was a bad choice but wanted to play it because of the novelty. He proceeded to go undefeated with it until he played me. There were Hitash, and Morg bloodspillers, and other powerhouse heroes being played as well. My first round opponent played 3 solid fighters heros(Lord Orim, Hitash, and one other) and an Elf@Arms for 4 quality fighters. His entire party was dead on my 4th turn.


Druss: Your right that this army is of "poor taste". Should players HAVE to use a gentleman's agreement to not play junk like this? No, the game designers should get there heads straight and fix the problems. Don't spit at me for playing it. Its very similar to the problems in regular rebellion that I crusade to be fixed, that wizkids seem to want to ignore and pretend they dont exist. I will keep playing with the armies that abuse the flawed areas until they realize they need to fix it.

Anyone attempting to use this strategy. Remember to use the High number chests too. you can pop them with the zombie or a goblin and get more nasty monsters to throw at your opponent. Once he is dead, just use all your actions to move the remaining monsters to a corner, and slowly advance taking snipe shots. You can always do a mad rush the last turn or so. WIth 9 guys, one is gonna make it out with the arm.

Wonderful thing about Zombie Hounds and det. Zombs., the counter normally kills them. Det. Zombs are a problem, I admit, but their low movement makes them hard to attack me with right away.

And, no, the 600 point game was not luck or a n00b. That was a 1st v. 2nd match for the tourney. Lv5 Jarl's sweep saved me... he was the only one that survived, but killing the same Drac. unique twice was fun...

Oh, and attacking Levat and Grimm, (particularly a high lv version) is feeding the MS to them. It doesn't take any ineptitude to give me levels.

Druss--you're right. I used to use this kind of army, (only with a magus and quickness) but decided not to play it any more.

I dont think that Bshugg's army should have a lot of trouble taking out your's DM. All he has to do is make sure and deal 8 clicks in one turn to a figure. I'd take out hitash first and all I probaly need is three attackers. I dont care about the retaliate because he's going to be dead. and with nine actions he has more than enough to move a token in and convert it and then still attack with the monsters. The next turn grimm would go down the smae way. A few new monsters and the rest of the wounded ones, assuming that a critically wounded hitash was still doing damage. And in the hands of a player as good as bshugg its going to be like hitting golf balls with a baseball bat.

3 words---counterattack-----level-up

my point was that you dont have time to level up on the counter attack. On a roll of a seven on the red token I played with you could play a red seething knight and a blue nightstalker that means all I have to roll is a 4 or better to kill a level 1 hitash. for him to retalite against the knight he then has to roll an eight, and so what if he does he did two damage. and he wont get a chance to retalite against my nightstalker if he's level one because he's dead, and if he's level two he wont because if demoralized.

Now explain to me will40k how you plan on leveling up if you can only do two clicks of damage before your figure dies. Keep in mind I only used three actions there I have 6 more actions and 5 more monsters tokens to use this turn, that should be enough to finish off what ever other beefing hero you have

So you are assuming that you have a red token and roll the number you want and your monsters fit neatly in that amount and you rolled what you need to hit and the monsters both fit side by side in a one square hallway and everyone else on my side does nothing like opening a chest to level up the demoralized character and then hitting you for 4 or breaking and being healed and so on and so on.... and don't try hitting golf balls with a bat you'll hurt yourself Just so you know, I won as well and played Serillia and Zenephret at lvl1 ,** leech medic,*** fodder(great with battle fury and beserk in almost all slots),***volunteer,***utem X-bowman,and ** cannibal---7 actions with two heroes to level up,thief and two damage from almost all pieces--

NewportHarry--My levat is lv2. In order to hit the seething knight I need a 7 since he has bf. If I hit then I gain one clik for vamp. and I can counter attack the Nightstalker (I won't be demoralized). Now, in order to attack with more MS you need me to
A:have one side of Levat completely open
B: have spawned a token close enough to have them attack,
C: insure that I don't have any figs in the way,
and D: make sure I don't have a level on Levat to start out. (I'd still have four clicks left)