I have just began to play tournament mageknight and would like some feedback on an army I have just created.


Formation 1:
Lich 93
3x * potbellied gremlins
* Bond Maker

Formation 2:
* heart seeker
* throttle worm
**throttle worm
* werewolf

loner:
*** troll artillerist


From what I've seen, the Lich is a very good figure, but to maximize its potential you need figures\terrain to block line of sight to the figure, magnifying its MB while making it immune to return fire (because of its MI). This is what the potbellies are for. The reason I do not use warrior sprites instead is because the one weakness the Lich and Potbellies share is speed, which is ignored by the Bond Maker's FM, while at the same time making the group move for only one action. Thus, I can FM the group into range of any formation or powerful fig (could this be the downfall of the Solonavi striker?) and push the amazingly robust Lich for a hit without fear of being hit back.
The second formation is for fighting another popular army: the swarm. When the first formation is swarmed, the second moves in for support. The one thing I notice in swarms is that they are composed of figures whose stats diminish quickly and have low defenses and, in the case of the KI swarm, have a similarly weak FMers. The weak defenses and "steep" combat dials are actually then quite vulnerable to the 7 attack and 2 dmg of the potbellies and then will be hurt even more when the 2nd formation moves into contact. The throttle worms will get gaurenteed damage on the swarmers while contributing to attacks made by werewolf and the capturing attempts of the Heart Seeker, while the Lich annhilates the the FMer. This can also work vice versa if the 2nd formation is swarmed and needs support. Formation 1 and 2 can also swarm themselves the opportunity presents itself.
The Artillerist is used as the anti-ML\RAM fig (knowing how popular that combo is) and is just a great all-around fig besides that. What do you think? go easy on me if possible

Formation 1 is interesting.

If you want to use something against swarms and like the Troll Artillerists, go for a Troll Gunner ***.

I did'nt like formation 2 much.

This army is very interesting,and the use of the Shyft formation on formation is impressive,but I would use the Troll Artillerist ** and upgrade the Werewolf?Maybe,or one of the throttle worms.Beware of toughness guys,but you can soften them up with the lich or the artillerist.

Do you plan to attack with the gremlins?You might want to try that against injured foes,but beware of levitators.

Apart from that,great army!

THANK THE BENIFICIENT, LOVING CAT!!! PEOPLE REPLIED AND THOUGHT MY ARMY WAS GOOD!!! (promptly goes and gives his cat a double portion of wet cat food)

Yes, deadmage, late in the game the gremlins would charge in and finish off the opposition. Also, the *** artillerist I think is awfully tough and can take a beating more so than the **, but I guess if the ** is more cost effective, then upgrading the Werewolf would be excellent.

Luke_poa, where would I get the points for a *** 'Gunner? Perhaps if you showed me what I could do to scrap the points off Form. 2 (or change it to something different) to make room for the *** Gunner, it would be much appreciated. I want to know what's wrong with Form. 2. I thought it was good seeing how it and the potbellies took down a Storm Golem that was "flung" behind my Lich.

Thank you both for replying!

If your gonna fm mage spawn all must touch the shift, in rebellion so your first formation is kinda in trouble; it can still be done but I doubt in the way you intended.

As for your second fomation why not drop the arty and werewolf add a ***throttle worm and upgrade the others. I don't suppose you have another bond maker?

Finally this army will own deathstars and possiblely swarm, swarm/charge but high manuverabilty figs and armies will give this army fits as it will threaten from several directions at once and if you're really unlucky none of those threats will be in the Lich's MB arc. It is a good army and a good appilcation of shift and mage spawn but it does have it's weakness.

I didn't have much time to comment on your army, but I wanted to say something because I really liked formation 1.

If you want some suggestion for formation 2, get another Bond Maker and replace Heart Seeker, upgrade Worm * to ** or *** and take Werewolf out.

I'm not sure, but I believe you'll have enough point for a Troll Gunner ** at least.

An interesting army.
Formation 1 is a one trick pony... personally I don't think you're getting your 93 points worth out of Lich if you don't have something for it to ML around. A formation I enjoy using is a *soul stealer, *bond maker, Lich and 2 * skeletons. If you use that, there's nothing to keep you from a second formation of warrior sprites to wall in front of them... but that's just me, and I like your formation.

Formation 2 is interesting with the throttle worms... I don't see the point of the werewolf though, is it a bodyguard? If so it's better off as a loner type so you can push it without pushing the whole formation. I'd almost be tempted to put in another * worm instead... but I guess the bodyguard is good to have. I do enjoy the thought of a stormy or hiero going down surrounded by 3 throttle worms, though.

As far as the troll artillerist, well, it dosen't seem to fit what you're trying to do.

As far as how I would change your army off the top of my head...

drop a Gremlin (I don't think you need 3, plus they have almost zero value apart from the bondmaker) and drop the Arty, since he dies pretty quick on his own with a 15 def.

so what to do with 52 points? Well there's a number of ways to go with it. what I'd probably do myself is put in 2 *** Imps to block for your throttle worms... or if you're hell bent on getting range, put in 2 *** Amotep Gunners and upgrade your bondmaker or something..... at least then you'll have two threats instead of just the one arty... as for rams, you can always lead with your worms, which have toughness. Anyways, I do like your army as it is... I just think you should find some use for the Lich's ML and turn it into an offensive weapon.. maybe with those 52 points you could add a *** Scorpem Gunner and upgrade your * Worms to ** or add a * Imp... that way you could use the ML yo yo with the Scorpem's bound ability, it sounds good in theory anyways... bound out, attack, then ML it back behind the safety of the potbellies.... but anyway, that's just my idea, I like your army alot and it's inspired me to build one like it.

First of all, I will adress the question eveyone is asking: what's the deal with the Werewolf? The answer is simple: my Throttle worms are eventually going to run into someone with toughness, and I want someone to deal damage when that time comes. Plus, the throttle worms can contribute attack bonuses when the werewolf attacks. That is why I'm not using only throttle worms.

Drachdeeis, I understand how Unlimited shyft\MS formations work, and yes, it does really hinder the effectiveness of this army, but until Wizkids does to Unlimited what it did to Conquest, what can I do? On your second point, I totally agree. I feel however, that the movement of 10 can get me out some of the trouble, while hopefully the support gets me out of the rest. Also, if all else fails, I can swarm one of the threats.

Nuclearsunburn, I agree with your point on putting the Lich's full 93 pts. to use. I probably should put in a *** Scorpem Gunner, and I think getting rid of the *** Artillerist would be good, but dropping a potbelly is something I am reluctant to do. Maybe you could show me a way to scrap points off of Form. 2 to make room. (Maybe I should get rid of the Werewolf after all.)

Luke_poa, I like your ideas on Formation 2, but I think Nuclearsunburn had a VERY good point on adding a Scopem Gunner, which essentially holds the same roll of a Troll Gunner you suggested, but is on wheels and forms a yo-yo combo with the Lich when I want to attack formations with the Lich instead of just one figure (which has been a problem since day 1).

Thank you all for posting!

Yeah, a *** Scorpem is exactly what you need.... or if you could get your hands on the Scorpem LE, I forget his name, he has an 11 attack and costs 5 more pts.. but you probably don't have it and won't get it so.... what I would do is this: drop the Artillerist and one Potbelly... trust me, you can block LOS just fine with 2 of them, plus the bondmaker has to touch all the Mage Spawn in the formation anyways. You don't really want to shave formation 2 off at all, because thinking about it, those worms are extremely vulnerable without the wolf to protect them... however.. thinking along the lines of the wolf.... you may not want it, because it really is a better loner figure... consider a Trog... it fits with the Venom theme of the formation and is itself a capable fighter. I got the idea from Powerhorse, who uses a similar formation in his Worms army. So, I'd set it up like this:

Lich 93
* Bondmaker 31
2 * Potbellies 28

*** Scorpem Gunner 47

* Throttle Worms 22
** Throttle Worms 27
* Heart seeker 25
* Trog 26

totals 299, I wish I could spend the extra point but I can't... but now you have 3 venom figs in that formation, one with some beef to him that fits the formation better I think, and something to yo yo with the Lich... you might find yourself wanting a healer, but I don't see where to fit one in... but I like the army, alot.

hi paul,
Having had the pleasure of seeing this army in action last week I can say it is surprisingly strong. And very innovative. I had honestly given up on the lich, but this army utilizes him to near perfection.
I agree with several of the comments made so far. I am not sure why you need three potbellies. The only time I can see you needing more blocking than two gives you is against bound. And most bounders will be able to get around you anyways. Some of those points defiantly need to be spent in upgrading the throttle one star to a two. They are vastly superior. I am not sure about the trog for werewolf. Wolfie sure did pull his weight in some of the battles.
Why a heartseeker *? Just curious.
I think the two weaknesses of this army are blast/magic immunity and ram. You don’t have to worry too much about the first because there are only a few figs with it and the worst they will do is take out the bondmaker. (which would hurt a lot). And the players at our venue don’t seem to know ram exists yet, so again not a biggie.
Thanks again for thinking up something totally original.
See you this weekend,
best regards,
mat

Hello, Mat! Seeing that now two people suggest dropping the potbelly, I will now do so. I also believe that keeping the Werewolf would be a good choice as he is 4 less points than the trog (who is extremely glass-jawed anyway) and taking the extra point left over from Nuclearsunburn's suggested army, I can now upgrade the worms. The only reason I use a *Heartseeker is: what other Shyft is cheaper to make a formation with the worms? I believe the Scorpem Gunner *** (I cannot thank Nuclearsunburn enough for that great idea!) can cover for the both the Blast\Immunity problem and the Ram problem. When the the mage gets within 15 inches I move then shoot (this should be devastating since most mages have fairly low defense and lose their Mb or get a really low attack after 3 clicks), then yo-yo him back to safety. Same against the technomancers who threaten to ML\Ram me. Another thing that makes this army protected against ram is this: you can't ram my throttle worms, ramming my Werewolf would not be too smart, my Heartseeker would MR, and all of my first formation keep their useful abilities after taking a click.

Nuclearsunburn, thanks again for the awesome idea!!!

P.S. Mat, is that deal for the Storm Golem still on? Also, I have only 1 ** Throttle Worms. If you have another one, could I hopefully purchase it from you (for whatever the price)?

Thanks for posting!

i look forward to seeing the new army. Yes the stormie deal is still on. and you are welcome to borrow a throttle worm ** for your army, but i am not sure i want to sell any of mine.
Just a note. Magic Retalition is not activated by special ablities, only close and ranged combat. Thus ram does not trimmer it and neither would venom.
good luck,
mm

OK, thanks everyone for the help with the army build. Now I have a problem almost everyone has and would like some help with a strategy to defeat a most imposing piece of plastic: the Great Fire Dragon.

If anyone has any idea how to take one down, please post.
For those interested, the army specifically was:

GFD, young
Athene
* Technomancer

Try not to tinker with the build, as this will only result in a hate-army, but instead tinker with ideas to take the dragon out.

P.S. If I MB the dragon with the Lich, do I get to decide which section is affected?

kudos on looking for tactics to take out the GFD as opposed to changing the figs....I'll try to post some ideas later when I have more time.

The first thing I'd try to do is take out the tail and one wing, or both wings. If at all possible destroy an entire section. You do not decide which section is effectede by the MB also the t worms will be useless on the gfd so I'd use them to go after athane and the techno. I'd try and open up with the lich and gunner on one side and then after that side is dead continue to fire into it and have it affect the tail. However with only two figures capable of damaging it I wouldn't like my chances.