This is the situation:

Amazon Draconum at b2b with two ESA.

Corpheus comes and flame lightning the three.

Does the amazon Draconum has to roll for dodge three times or just one??

I ruled that she would have to roll only once, but the other guy argued she would have to roll for each splash damage.

Thanks.

Not that I'm official or anything - but I'd bet that you ruled correctlly.

Damage (splash and all) is all applied at once, and therefore there really is just one attack made - if you dodge part of it then you dodge all of it. <Though someone else should still pop in with a more official point, as the main reason I posted was to add the next bit>

What about a formation of 3xDodgefigures that each are the target of a triple F/L striker?

Say that the middle one makes its dodge roll (assuming that it IS just one roll), does that mean that each of the outside figures takes only one damage and the middle one takes zero? THat's my take on it.

Say that one of the outside makes the dodge - but neither of the other do: does each of the others take 2 damage and the one that dodged take zero?

And both of the outside ones make their dodge - but the middle does not: Does the middle take only one damage and the outside ones take zero damage?


I believe that I am correct in each of the above situations - but I wouldn't mind someone chiming in to agree.. or disagree as the case needs be.

It is a single attack. And the often labeled 'splash' damage is no such thing.

Should one of those three figures make it's Dodge roll, then it would take no damage. It would not effect how much damage the other figures would take. It would not lessen the damage they take in the slightest.

Only the primary target rolls for dodge. So if he attacked the amazon with flame lightning and she dodged no one would take any damaged.

Then again if he attacked one of your ESA with flame lightning both the ESA and the Amazon would take damage and the amazon wouldn't get to roll dodge

...I think Yandros is correct in every situation. But I am on a 50/50 on this kinda rulings so...:confused: :rolleyes: ;)

I would think that since the damage is totaled and applied all at once, one Dodge roll would then be made to determine hot or not: as Arrik says, it's a single attack.

Grasshopper, you've got that wrong. The Dodge roll applies only to the damage to that figure. Just as a figure can be missed and the "splash" (sorry, Arrik) still effect the secondary figures, so the primary dodging would not prevent the secondarys from being hit. In the case of multiple-arrow/multiple Dodge, each figure is dodging or not) the total damage that the attack would apply, not individual portions.
Ex: Corpheus shoots triple F/L at a formation of three Dervishes, hitting all of them. The damage is 2-3-2. Each figure rolls for dodge of that total, taking all or none.

Grumblegrumblegrumble. I just lost a long post because MKrealms.com cant find it's server. :mad:

That would be true, Necro, but dodge has nothing to do with damage.
In the MK rulebook, it states that before you apply damage, you determine the success of the attack. Dodge affects the success of the attack, not the damage.
When this warrior is successfully hit by a ranged or close combat attack, roll 1 six-sided die. On a result of 4, 5, or 6, the attack is considered to MISS this warrior instead.
Remember how F/L works, it's not like shockwave where you just draw lines of fire to every figure in a half-range circle.
A SUCCESSFUL ranged combat attack affects the target figure and every figure in base contact with the target...

Single-arrow F/L:
Say an Incendiary Golem walks up to a Galeshi Dervish surrounded by... eh, whatever.... Amazon Mancatchers. The golem rolls his attack after declaring he's targeting your dervish for a F/L attack. He rolls a 10 let's say and the attack would be successful, but the dervish has dodge. He rolls his dodge and gets a 5. The attack now misses the dervish instead and the ranged attack is unsuccessful.

Multiple F/L:
Say your Magestone Draconum meanders up to the dervish instead and he rolls a 10 again. He attacks the dervish and two mancatchers with F/L. If he succeeds, the dervish rolls his dodge. Since it's one attack, if the dervish succeeds, it is said to miss him completely and it's as if he isnt even there. Here's why:

When you roll a F/L and Multi-arrow attack, you compare the attack roll plus the attacker's attack value (in this instance the total would be 21) to all of the defences of the figures being hit by both the three arrows AND the F/L, since they both state that that's what you do to determine who takes what damage.

If the dodge on the dervish works, then he is considered to be missed by the attack. He is missed by the F/L splash from the two mancatchers AND the 1 of 3 arrows he was targeted with. The other two are considered hit, so determine their damage.

Arrik is correct in saying "the often labeled 'splash' damage is no such thing." It isn't technically splash (which insinuates that it happens no matter what), and people often forget that you have to compare the attacker's attack roll and attack value combined to each of the defences of the figures that would be affected by it. It's quite possible to hit only one or two of a 5 figure group with F/L. In multiple F/L it's just normally automatic because when you roll for three targets, if you succeed in hitting all of them, then the F/L logically would succeed aswell.

i would think it is only one roll because its one attack but im not 100% sure

It is one attack. Consider the case of single F/L.

That is, the attack is resolved against the target and any figure(s) in base contact with it. If one of those figures has the Dodge SA, then that figure gets to roll for Dodge since it is an attack and therefore can be dodged.

In ArcticFox's example of the Incendiary Golem and the Galeshi Dervish, the Dervish dodged the attack, rendering it "unsuccessful" against himself, but the Mancatchers may still be hit by the attack, regardless of whether the attack on the primary target (the Dervish) was successful or not.

Now take the multiple arrow F/L. The ADrac gets to roll for dodge and "[o]n a result of 4, 5 or 6, the attack is considered to miss this warrior." In which case, she takes no damage. All three arrows are considered to constitute one attack, so she only rolls for dodge once.

It's NOT as if the Dervish or ADrac "isnt even there" because the ESAs take damage (including "splash" damage) without regard to whether the AD dodges or not.

DragonVenom

Just because I have nothing better to do I'll give Arrik a thumbs up for the correct answer. It's one dice roll, one attack, one Dodge. If the primary target or any other target successfully Dodges the attack it has no bearing on whether or not the other figures are hit.

...isn;t that what I said, too? Where's my thumbs-up? Huh?

Sorry, ND. My ability to give the "Thumbs Up" is severely impaired by the fact that I run around with my other thumb stuck perpetually up my ###. So you gotta be 1st to get an Altan's thumbs up, unless you really want to receive the notorious "Brown Thumbs Up". Well, do ya? :p

Um... Dragon? You even quoted the rule where it says a single successful ranged attack affects all figures etc.... The rule on dodge says if the target rolls and makes their dodge roll, that successful attack is considered to miss instead. So it is no longer successful, so F/L failed. For it to work the primary attack has to be successful.
Think of it logically anyway, if you launch a fireball or a chained lightning at someone and it misses them, it's not going to explode right behind them and affect everyone else somehow. My point is that dodge says it deals with the success of an attack. So if the character dodges it's the same thing as if his defence was higher than your figure's attack roll + attack value and you missed him. If you miss him, the attack on him is unsuccessful. So he either isnt affected (as in the Magestone Drac problem) or you just missed him with your attack so everyone's fine (like the incendiary golem problem.)

This is in error. The adjacent figures are not effected in a secondary effect if the primary target somehow manages to avoid it's effects. There is no 'primary' attack.

Like all multiple target attacks, a single attack roll is made and compared against all eligible targets. Flame/Lightning just adds in non-designated targets to the mix. It's quite possible to miss the initial designated target and hit the adjacent figures.

Actually, I logically think that a missed shot should land somewhere. Why would it disappear without any effect at all? It's simplicity, not logic here.

You have evidence and quotes to the contrary? :D

FLAME/LIGHTNING. This warrior’s ranged combat attack can affect all figures in base contact with the target. (Optional) Give this warrior a ranged combat action and reduce his damage value to 1. A successful ranged combat attack affects the target figure and every figure in base contact with the target, delivering 1 click of damage to each figure successfully hit. Make only one attack dice roll; compare that result to the defense value of the target figure
and every figure in base contact with it.

As you can see, whether or not each figure is hit is determined indepentantly, and no where does it say that the Primary Target must be successfully hit for other figures to be hit. In fact, it says the complete opposite by saying "deliever 1 click to each taget succesfully hit" showing that some targets may be hit while others may not.

I think you can take our collective word on this one as we've been answering this same questions for players for more than a year now. Just to muddle things up, think of it in a realistic sense. If you are hangin out with a group of your homies and some rivals come by in their hydraulically dancing Chevy Nova and perform a drive by on the group of you with their AK47 assault rifles, and you have super fast reflexes and manage to dodge all of the bullets, your ability to "Dodge" cannot be shared by your homies, so you'd better put in a call to the coroner.