While 2.0 has lots of neat things in it, I see several really BIG problems. I'll skip the obsolete old models one for here - they still may do something about that. But here are the other huge problems I see:

1) As someone else mentioned, the "my army is Podo, game ends, I have less points so I win!". This doesn't have to be just goblin volunteers either - you could take several Tormented souls, move them the first turn to take 1 objective, then push them all to die. There is also the really bizarre situation in which I have more objectives but am getting destroyed. Its suddenly worthwhile for me to push or shockwave my own models to death and just end the game! With any amount of common sense, if my whole army is gone my opponent can just stroll over and take the objectives. The solution to this one is very very simple. Say that a side that is eliminated automatically loses.

2) Wing movement. If my whole army flies and shoots, and I all go to soaring mode, I render every non-ranged model in your army almost useless. This means every army MUST include a ranged attacker. Furthermore, its not enought to just do that. Unless your whole army is shooting oriented odds are my whole flying shooting army can outshoot you. Unless wing units are so heavily priced that several of them can be outshot by one grounded shooting unit, which I think will make them almost unplayable, but STILL force every army to include range! Now the fact that soaring models can't touch objectives might fix that, but it still seems quite viable for me to plan to slaughter your army to where its useless then drop down to take the objectives. We'll have to see how it works, but I see a big red flag - even more so with scenarios with other victory conditions. (I admit I started writing this one thinking they could capture objectives, which made it a whole lot nastier. Then I double checked to make sure :) )

3) Capturing. This has been made just insane! The purpouse of capturing is now to quickly eliminate opposing models without even having to hurt them. High attack value models (say, Heirophant) can just capture, whack the captive next turn, and be ready to go. Doesn't matter how tough the target is as long as its capturable. And it can't even fight back after the first attack! And the new gang up rules mean you can combine to make the capture without even needing to give those models action tokens! I predict models without an anti-capture ability will rarely even get damaged in melee, they will just be captured and killed.

wow, no offense but your post makes no sense to me.

1) old models are not useless, that's obvious from the chnages we've seen. MANY old figures will be very useful.

2) In a world where some figures can fly, and also shoot, doesn't it makes sense that you would need range to be successful against them??? also, the Domain cards might ground flyers, so wait and see before making reckless complaints

3) To Eliminate a captive, you get -3 to the roll and no Gang-Up is allowed, so eliminating is not very easy - and dop you want your Hieorphant tied up by having to capture, then push or rest and eliminate?? your opponent will be crushing you meantime!!

4) As for winning with Podo, or Tortured Souls, DUH!!! it won't happned, the rules will be written so it can't happen - nobody is that stupid! Jordan Weisman is not that stupid!

1) this is a problem and they are working on it I am sure. IT has been point out to them but more than one person.

2) Soarings figures can not take objectives so they will have to come down from soaring to claim an objective or to atleast to contest it. Look for this, though not worded in the rules right now, to work like HC where soaring figures can not attack ground figures while soaring. One also has to keep in mind that damage comes fast and hard under the new rules so if a soarign figure comes down lookout. You also have to remember domain cards could prevent figures from soaring.

3) Capture gets a -3 mod to both the attempt and the kill attempt. Keep in mind that a figure with a captive can not attack so witht he damage goign up and figures bitting it quick do look for it to be that back either. It also makes BF a bigger plus.

2.0 does have it's problems. My biggest concern is going to be the new movement speeds were looking at. There will be some figs that can cover the entire table in one turn. That's a little fast, I think, but we'll have to get used to it.

There are already loopholes in 1.0 that can be exploited just like flight or low build totals. The new aquatic rules opened up a huge possibility for water based turtle armies, but I haven't seen those domonate anything so far. There will always be problems with any game played. Trying to fix MK from the ground up while keeping all old figures playable is a hard task.

But the real question is not "how broken will 2.0 be" but
"does 2.0 really improve and fix the game"? So far I think 2.0 will do that. IT's deffinatly got everyone thinking about new uses for peices that have fallen by the wayside and would be laughed at if we used them 1.0. That is deffenatly a good thing.

The biggest threat I see to this 2.0 is the flying issue. I think one of the ways they countered that is with the increased point allotment for the standard game. 100 extra points will buy those last few figs you need to round out the basics. Besides, there is still the terrain, domain, and weather cards that we havn't seen yet. There might be some standard weather conditions that make flyers really moot. Aslo, flyers are going to cost a fortune, since your now buying the abillity for the entire life of the fig, and not just for a few clicks.

2.0 is an improvement to the game. I think it will do more good them harm, and when Wizkids finally releases the rules/conversion guide we can finally start playing it before November and hopefully get some of these questions out of the way.

the new rules kick a**!!!!!! i cant wait for my 14 inch charging striker!!!! necro will rule the field, fells!!!!!

I question even the fundamental basis of your questions.

Why do you play the game?

Do you solely play it to find loopholes in the rules, so you can win tournaments? Then continue to do so and never use the figures you have won? What is the point of that?

I think their might be some tactics that dominate early. However, the domain rules can quickly change these dominant tactics. Just by printing a card, and making it fairly available, WK can subdue dominating strategies.

I have done a little analysis of tactics, (not rules loopholes) and there are so many viable threats now on the battlefield, I think it will be very hard to dominate.

Domains are great. Just like the US Army uses more infantry when fighting in cities, and more tanks when fighting in the desert, so to will you be able to build your army to fit the situation. I don't like cancelling out domains. Then one dominant strategy might prevail. If you make the domain card apply to a portion of the board, instead of the whole thing, then you know your army will be effective in at least that section of the board. Of course you place your objective in that spot. Or maybe you apply it to the opponents objective to make it easier to counter his advantage.

I'm sure that the rules given out at GenCon are gonna have to be finalized as well. If I remember correctly, the promo ShadowRun: Duels figs given away at WizardWorld had rules that were re-worked and finalized for the release this past June.

Given that 2.0 is still 3 months away, I'm positive some of what we've seen will be updated for the final release.

One reason for the relics, domain and terrian cards is WK liked how CCG games could continuely rewrite the rules and add game mechanics

You question it might possibly be a problem that an army consisting of one Podo wins every game without a turn being played?????

I don't go to tournaments. I've been to three (won two, got beaten out by my girlfriend in the other) and got fed up with all the cheating and arguing and rules lawyering and decided it wasn't worth it. I play purely for fun. My normal games involve really big tables, reinforcements arriving on a regular basis, and constantly changing missions to ensure the game never bogs down. I don't know why other people find it enjoyable to play the rules, not the game. But what's wrong with wanting a nicely balanced, playable game?

Obviously they didn't consider it when they wrote the demo rules. And after several rules editions and many FAQs, there still isn't a single place where it actually says that a model that loses aquatic in deep water is destroyed!

I don't think that's at all obvious, but I said they may change that so I didn't list it among the big problems.

Doesn't it also make sense that you would bring the biggest army you could instead of conveniently picking one worth the same amount as your foe? Game balance is not always realistic, but its good for the game!
My point is that just bringing along some range isn't enough. Your melee army with some missile support will have to face that I can start by targeting your missile troops, kill them (since all my stuff can attack and not all yours can attack back), then just start whittling away your troops while you sit on the objectives and hope you can last the turn limit. Even if I can't kill them in time that's a REALLY dull game.

First, there isn't much for aquatic units that can sit in a pond and actually be a threat. Second, if most of your army is sitting in a pond I avoid that part of the battlefield. Actually, this strategy may get nastier in version 2 since you can put the pond near an objective and force your opponent near it.

It normally takes more than one attack to kill a model by damaging it. So you can keep whacking on it while its fighting back, or you can just capture it, and it CAN'T fight back, and eliminate with a single action no matter how many clicks it has left. Maybe the Heirophant was a bad example, since it does enough damage to kill most models in two attacks anyway, but think about Amazon Mancatchers. Against a 16 defense they need a 7 to hit (and can easily reduce that with a gang up attack) and then a 7 to kill the target. Not hard at all.

in the demo we played...soaring figures still got to attack ground units and visa versa.......

The old figs will probably be played more than the new ones.All the demo figs mainly sucked,save a few sa's.And they were definatley way to over priced.

actually... killing your own figures or army is basically the same as withdrawing your battle. besides... all he has to do legally is to damage your figures once... and let you kill it by yourself... the points goes to him! :p

obviously, they didn't. because its just rules for the envoys to demo the new version of the game to interested parties!

A LOT OF PEOPLE here don't get it. the rules posted by Krieg is just temporary and hence posted to give all of us an idea how MK 2.0 is played atm at gencon. its just the tip of an iceberg.

obviously there are loopholes or missing information as the product is still under development and is being tweaked. so DONT GET your oodles out on the problems that's arise from the snapshots of the document thats posted here, we still don't have a clue what the final rules are.

the final rules of product needs to come out first (if WK would release it early) if there are issues with it... post it as a problem.

Well, you probably have a bad taste in your mouth from the tournament scene you experienced. I have seen a couple people act that way, but they usually stop coming, because they get the meesage that that behavior is unwelcome. I find it more the case that people say "good move" when I hit and "sorry" when I roll a crit miss.

Nope, no points any more! Unless that's part of the demo rules, and in the actual rules you will still count VPs and the objectives will be worth VPs.

Its not a big deal of somethings get left out of the demo rules. But the victory conditions are a big, huge blazing issue. They bothered to put in this rule that the game ends when only one player has figures left. Since they bothered to specifically state that, they opened up a whole bunch of very odd winning conditions and clearly didn't consider that! They put envoys in a position where, if asked about this big problem, the envoy would have to say "um, duh,maybe they'll fix it later?" Personally I would rather see this get fixed before the rules come out then have them have to errata and FAQ it right away!

With the Podo/Tormented Soul problem, it'll be very easy to fix. All they have to do is add a rule that says if an entire army is eliminated (killed/captured/demoralized) before time, then that player automatically loses, and the player with good figures still on the field wins.