Well - there's a piece of news that blew me away from WK site .......

WK retiring some old sets from Approved Play beginning with the DR release ..... although they will still support an Unrestricted format

What does that do to my 2000 pre MK2 figures? ... guess their Ebay value kinda dropped :-)

Actually I'm very upset about this!

The same reason I quit playing Magic the Gathering was because of the need for deep pockets to stay competitive. Having to constantly buy more to play just isn't going to happen for me.

Personally I've been on the fence about playing. This makes my decision clear to not play anymore.

What WK is doing: It's the cycles we see in MtG and for tournament play it's a good idea. Keeping a good balance to the game a la current Type II is a fine idea. However, WK has yet to come up with anywhere near as good a setup as WotC has for tournament play. Warlord counts are way down and so are Venues due to the Great Warlord Shakeout.

The majority of MK players are casual, so the impact of this ruling won't be as severe as it would be in the more tournament-oriented environment of MtG were that game to get hit with the set restrictions for the first time like we are.

Perhaps WK will follow through with a bigger and better Sanctioned system to go with this set restriction ruling. If they do, all tournament players be happier in terms of seeing a well-balanced group of pieces to work with. The casual player can still do as they wish since most of them aren't loaded with all the uber-pieces to create an abusive environment that would occur with the ability to mix in pieces from the older sets.

Also, if there's a real uproar and a corresponding decline in sales, WK can always shift the emphasis to the Unrestricted format until the Type II-style format catches on in a year or two. Handled right, this can be the way for MK to firm up a real tournament scene along the lines of the DCI and we all know how well Magic has done for 12 years due to that focus. Let's give them a chance to work their way through this so MK isn't something that fades out in another year or two. It would be nice to see MK reach the plateau that MtG has!

Remember folks, the Power 9 still command a high price. Don't dump those good LE's and Uniques quite yet! *smile*

Wyvern

Wyvern, I pray that you are right about this.

I don't know which of the two threads will become the main area of discussion for this topic, so i'll just:

I've been calling for this for quite a while.

Magic: the Gathering is the game it is today because of two things, A) Stable Game Mechanics, and B) the type rotation system.

This move will force people to find new figures to put in their armies instead of relying on the same old figures and only putting the coolest looking new ones into their armies.

Think about it. The end of Wraith armies, a death to the WHK, and the most important thing...

Worlds will be a truly innovative tournament this year! For years now we've seen the same type of armies getting to the top, using mostly the same figures. This policy will change all that, and we'll see more and more new armies, strategies, and combinations!

Change, in this case, is good.

????????????
There hasn't been the same Army winning the yearly tourneys yet.

Let's examine the Worlds armies from last year:

7 contained Crystal protectors.
2 used Wyvern.
2 used Warpath.
3 used Mochoch
5 used *** Fells
2 used Elroodon.
2 used WHKs.

All these similarities among only 8 armies. At one of the local tournaments I play in, there are maybe 3 figures that are shared between two or more armies among 8 people, and none shared among more than 3.

This is what I mean by "the same armies".

This isn't a CCG, rotating old sets in a miniatures game is bad business. Part of the fun of miniature games is having a favorite figure that you use in every army and such. They aren't pieces of cardboard that just rotate out of use, they are sentimental collectibles.

Set rotations in card games (Magic specifically) because they have well oiled tournament systems and multiple formats with varying levels of support.

Also, Wizkids arguement that this is to help new players get into the game is so asinine. First of all 2.0 basically did help new players get into the game with most new Uniques/LEs being preferred for their ability to wield relics. Saying that this helps new players into the game is just silly.

A final thing to note would be that they waited way too long to announce this. It should have been announced when 2.0 was released so that people would not try to acquire older pieces that worked well under new rules. I think the fact that the information was keot back for so long is somewhat insulting.

I doubt they have a FFL like Wizards or even other gaming companys and set rotations probably wont be balanced at first. The only figure people complain about right now is Varatrix...there are no old figures that need to go.

This is very frustrating so it is hard to be coherent, but I think I made my general points. For the most part I think trying to be more professional and have set rotations is a poor attempt to look more organized. I can't express how I feel about old figures rotating out...miniature games just shouldn't be like that.

I want to try to be positive and take a "wait and see" approach, but obviously the newer format will be highly supported and unrestricted play will fade off and become irrelevant. After all, thats what makes the most money...and thats what its all about in the end, isnt it?

Yes and that was in one year and not comparing two years. Also there is a reason why at Worlds army look the sam compared to you local venue. More than likely your local venue is not 8+ guys all playing number cruntched armies. Your also only taking a look at 8 of the what 30 armies at Worlds. If you say well ti was the top 8 then you also have to look at that 2 out of 3 days was sealed.

Is a rotation a good idea? More than likely it is what is best for the game but and I mean there is a big BUT here. This is not just about facts this is about perception. If WK does nto handle this very carefully then there will be no MK in 2 years. People were feeling beter about things. Players that said they were done were thinking about coming back to the game and then this. You can onyl bite the hand that feeds you so many times before the hand becomes a fist and hits you or you starve to death.

I've yet to post my true thoughts on set rotation. That will likely come later. ;)

Food for thought:

WotC often reprints filler from previous sets which keeps particular items in rotation longer. How long before the WK marketing machine realizes they can save $ on sculpts and stats by reprinting wood golems in the next three base sets? :rolleyes:

Wyvern, great comments as usual. I hope this works out. I did find that when I am teaching 2.0 to new players, the existence of the old sets and figures becomes overwhelming for them. They have never seen the 1.0 figures being played and have no idea what abilities the figures have or what they can do. They may be an expert on the 2.0 figures but when they run up against figures they have never seen, it is hard for them to realistically compete. However, I hope WK provides support for an unrestricted format each month. It would be sad to no longer see blade golems, werewolves, etc. on the battlefield.

Well considering that soem of the figures contain SA that are no longer in the game ( or will no longer be in the game) they will nto be comign back...WotC at least you know there is a chance some stuff will get reprinted.

So to all the people that ade statements about the SAC card being proof the old stuff not sticking around. They were right. Some much for conspiracies.

This is now begging to make me feel upset and I am ready to quit

This rotation of earlier sets is just a way of WK to ream royally those players who've been around for a long time. I understand the suspected "need" to try and keep things new and exciting in the tournament scene, but why does WK have to drop this on us just like they did with MK2.0?

We, as players were told that our MK1.0 pieces are going to be "fully compatable"... so they are, but most absolutely suck in a MK2.0 format. People praised WK for MK2.0 stating that so many older figures would now become useful and relevant. And now all of the older figures that were revitalized have now become "illegal" in tournaments. Is this good for those people who've remained loyal to the game for the past 3+ years... I think not.

Has MK1.0 figures dominated the tournament scene?... not that I've heard of. So is this really necessary? I do not believe so.

Well at least there is one positive aspect of this.. *looks 2 posts above his*

This is a lot to take in. I see SO many figures I've loved using throughout the years. I also see some LE's that were released no more than a few months ago becoming useless to me now. I see trades falling through because I won't shaft someone with an unusable figure. I see alot of plastic sitting in a box.