Okay, this self-negating relic #### is making me a wee angry.

Has anyone gotten any further in the discussion over whether this piece, which was SO VERY OBVIOUSLY INTENDED TO BE PLAYABLE, can use its abilities yet?

What is the problem?

Stick Horse requires Boot movement. Stick horse changes the figure's movement to Horseshow movement. Equipping Stick Horse makes it an illegal relic and you have to drop it.

I expect it will be fixed in the next FAQ (which I expect early next week).

Any warlord that doesn't see the logic and calls it illegal is a little anal in my opinion...yes it requires the :boot: :sword: to wield and you gain :hspeed: instead of :boot: but this is just so you can't make free spins...this is just another example of things that make the FAQ bigger and bigger...they need to address the fact that a Demoralized rider cannot base an opposing warrior while on a mount and the mount is making a Mounted Charge...sure it says in the rules that a Demoralized figure cannot base an opposing warrior...but I have 2 local warlords who think you can...I'm just a player who's investigating and discussion on the subject don't mean anything...lets just make the FAQ into an MK novel...I'm still waiting for the 3rd and 4th book anyway...this will give me more reading to do...whatever...

If by anal, you mean interpreting the rules correctly, you'd be right. If you mean it in a derogatory fashion, you'd be dead wrong. There's a MUCH bigger issue here than just this one relic. EVERY relic that a) requires a specific speed type and b) can be used by a rider has this issue. For example, take Nepheria Pike. Pike has the :boot: speed type, and because of that fact, she can equip Rangers Plate. Now, put Pike and in Rangers Plate on ANY of the mounts she can ride (Dragon, Stag, Salamander). As part of one of these Cavalry Units she gets, instead of the :boot: , in order, :wing: , :hspeed: , :aquatic: . So as a member of a Cavalry unit, Pike wearing Ranger's Plate is an illegal combination. An even better example. Tymora os Korgas is wearing Ranger's Plate and riding a Warbird - no problem here because the Warbird, and thus Tymora, has the :boot:. During the game, Tymora unmounts (for whatever reason) and subsequently tries to form a Cavalry unit with a friendly Pagasus. Once the Cavlary unit is formed, you have an illegal state - Tymora no longer meets the requirement for the Relic she is wielding. The fact that an illegal situation can arise through a comepletely legal series of moves is a VERY BIG PROBLEM, and needs to be treated as such. Stick Horse is just a symptom of the problem. This is orders of magnitude more important than the fact that a Cavalry Unit cannot base up opposing figures if either part of the unit is demoralized. Such a rule is consistant with the rest of the ruleset and does not create an inherent contradiction. At most, it is merely annoying to the player who wants to MC in this situation.

This is not about making the FAQ longer. This is about tightening up the ruleset.

Here's an interesting question: Can you use Stick Horse on a rider, riding a :boot: mount, and have the :boot: speed that the rider's speed type is replaced with over-ride the :hspeed: you would gain when based with the Coconut Halves's wielder?

Hey guys why make this so difficult it is clear that they wanted to give the :hspeed: to figures with the :boot: speed type as long as the requirements are fulfilled at the beginning of the game that should be good enough. By over analyzing every rule nuance we are our own worst enemies here. They meant for this game to be a simple miniatures game and we are making it more and more complex by questioning simple things so much.

just my .02 cents

I agree with tr58 if you start with :boot: the card changes you to :hspeed: so you met the requirement to use it. As for SIMPLISITY that has long left this game. 2.0 for good points is no simple game any more. I have seen a Huge decline in people who play due to Issues like this one and the complexity of the rules. As we all know it was not broke so why was it fixed. The area I live in has lost 6 of the 8 orignal warlords " ENVOYES" in the past 18 mo. and the player base has declined from about 55 to 60 regular players in 5 venues to about 8 to 10 in 2 venues. I see this decline more so related to the new complexity of the game and due to the Out Lawing of a large about of the figs in tourny play. This is a personal observation only but tr58 is right and we are only turning off new players by making this harder thak it already is. THIS IS A GAME NOT LIFE and that my humble opnion.

*stands up and cheers madly*

Couldn't have said this any better myself... so many questions that need answers before they come up at Nats.:confused:

Help us, Siggy-wan, you're our only hope! :D

To jerrund...I see your point but I think something like that can be ruled by a warlord with some logic...yes it was a mistake...but mistakes happen...anyway...I've looked through the rules and cannot find anywhere that it says the rider gains the mounts speed type...not even in the May FAQ...I know this is so...I have read it on-line many times but I'm starting to wonder...anyway...when you were discussing the problem with Tymara os Korgas....I don't see a problem...they have already stated in the FAQ that when you gain another speed type you still have the old speed type...look up Potion of Water Breathing...you probably misunderstood my post last night...I just started typing and venting my frustration...people interpret the rules the way they want...

tr58...I also agree with you...only problem is that everyone wants to find any way they can twist things to their advantage...who actually cares about the rules...there is nothing simple about the rules anymore and they are only going to get worse...

silverwolf1...I personally like the new game but I do agree that the rules are getting more and more complicated and they will continue to...I don't think people would be playing alot of the older figures now anyway...I had a disagreement with a local player...he said sales have increased and the banning was important...I said no...the banning was a mistake...the new set is great...that is why sales went up...is there was no banning we would not have lost so many players and sales would have gone up even more...but I'm sure the executives just point at a graph in a boardroom and pat them selves on the back as they point out the increase in sales...it's just too bad I can't be there to boot them in the rear for all the players we have lost from the game...

Jerrund, Ku-

Your right they must get the wording fixed, and by fixed I mean making these thigns work they way they were intended and not by claiming this was the way it was meant, which is obviously not the intention.

Grimlok...you can't expect them to admit to making a mistake...they don't make mistakes...Spirit Armor was just a misprint...mounted profiency description was written incorrectly causing us to misinterpret the rules...the key is for them to find a way to fix it without admitting to making a mistake...

Actually, that's where it is, the May FAQ:

Thanks Dblizz...why would they put instead as opposed to gains...it isn't like they can use the other speed type on the mount...and they would lose the speed type off the mount...hmm...

I expect they're going to both be errated to have the line "Cannot be wielded by figures that can become riders." or "Cannot be wielded by a rider."