I'm taking this out into its own thread to try to not derail the other thread.


If this were the goal then when 2.0 was released, all prior sets would be retired. Of course, you might believe WizKids decided to phase it in. If so then, retirement would end once Dragon's Gate is retired.

BTW, I'm not taking it out because I don't think that set retirement isn't an issue that shouldn't be discussed in Hexian's thread. There is a relationship to deal with. However, I don't feel that discussion about whether set retirement is part of 2.0 is part of that topic.

But they have not said it will end Mr. Blizzard. WK said there will be a Base set and 4 Booster sets with each section. So on thal line, two sets after Sorcery, a new base set wil be ut and the current base set, 2.0, will not be tournament legal.

Actually, I'm sure Draddog has stated something along the lines of "set retirement is here to stay."

Again (admittedly, from the derivative thread), if this was something about Mage Knight, then they wouldn't have carried over retirement into their other lines.

I feel that, in part, retirement and 2.0 go hand-in-hand. I don't think changing to 2.0 was the only reason they had in mind for retirement, but as Barrel posted elsewhere, "WK has stated 1.0 and 2.0 were not designed with each other in mind." I heard that also. I also heard them say that 1.0 figures would be perfectly playable in 2.0. They are playable, but I wouldn't call it perfectly with some of the 1.0 figure's abilities ignored/omitted in the newer version of the game. I also believe that it was intended to aid in keeping their new product selling.

As far as the other game lines go, being included in retirement serves two purposes for Wizkids. It keeps people from complaining that they are slighting Mage Knight only with retirement by including the other games, and it serves to aid them in the sales of newer products for those games as well.

So, I don't think 2.0 being released was the only reason for their decision to go with set rotation, but it had something to do with it. It might not seem as much so if they had included abilities that they left out from 1.0 figures, and making the existing factions from 1.0 able to be combined with the new ones of 2.0. But they even said at Gen Con last year that 2.0 is meant to be a new game of it's own. Not just 1.0, version 2.

Set Retirement killed my father. From that day, I swore an oath of vengeance against Set Retirement, and all who would bow to its wicked feet.

Set Retirment.....YOUR TIME HAS COME!!!!!!

Er....Set Retirement, even. 3rd shift job = lapses in typing.

If WK had retired EVERYTHING at the start of MK2 there would have been a REVOLT and everybody would have QUIT AT THE SPOT.
That's why they lied to us at the introduction of MK2 when they told us that MK1 and MK2 were going to be compatible and you would be able to use your MK figs under MK2 rules.
(Remember how Typhon and such gave us MK2 "battle reports" with MK1 figs to prove us how everything would become better ?)

As it turned out most of the players at that time quit anyway - my guess would be around 90% quit.
Just read through some threads from that time and be amazed how MANY "household names" have disappeared in the meantime.

The people who are still playing obviously say that the game now is "better" and you have "more options" etc.
Unfortunately the 90% who has left doesn't voice their opinion anymore.
I think the game has stopped being a "strategy" game and has become a "combo" game.
The fact that you don't even have to roll the dice a SINGLE time to win a game has me shaking my head, especially since this game has dice-rolling at the heart of its creation.

The game has not become "better", there is just "more".
Instead of 1 AD you may now have gotten 3 AD's or something like that, in essence it hasn't changed.

Rotation,
I do not like it
but I understand it is inevitable for several reasons.
- It allows a company to get rid of unbalanced pieces (and with WK's "playtesting" skills this may be more necessary than with other companies)
- It gives new players a "fresh start" as they don't have to buy older figs.
- from a commercial standpoint, it increases sales of course as you are forced to buy new sets to stay competitive in the organised play.


I have a lot of sympathy though for the "old timers" amongst you who still play and enjoy the game after all the turmoil, I really wish I could feel the thrill and excitement again when I was building armies, playing in tournaments, writing articles on the realms, etc, but alas .......... the game cannot inspire me anymore to do those things.

And ......... let's just say that WK evolved from being a very "idealistic" group of people ("we will never ban anything, you will always be able to use any piece you ever bought")
to a very "realistic" group of people ("we need more money folks if you want us to keep making new figs for you") ;)

2.0 would not be able to survive without retirement since each set has brought new rules and figures with them.

It would be impossible for playtesters to test more than 5 sets with one they intend to bring out.So they have to retire or else abuse will be very widespread and "broken" armies will definitly make it through without retirement.

Do domains/Items also get retired?
and if they do will they be reprinted?

sorry about double post

Do the mkrealms relic packs also get retired ?

I think retirement would have been instituted regardless of whether 2.0 was created. The same needs and benefits of retirement exist independently of 2.0.

I think Borg goes off topic when he criticizes 2.0 as a game. 2.0 is not simply "more," it is a much better game than 1.0. If people would actively play 2.0 rather than speculate about how they think it plays, they might change their opinion. By the way, those people who allegedly quit the game maybe don't voice their opinion because they don't play 2.0 and therefore are not in the position to properly evaluate it.

Another thread that will apparently get derailed. :(

After the death (as best as I can tell) of MK in Japan, I started buying DDMG and am still playing it. WoTC hasn't rotated any sets yet but on the other hand they have not said that they won't in the future. I feel that's still better than WK because at least I haven't been lied to but to be honest, I've reached the point with collectibles and rotations in games that I just no longer want to put up with it. I've read all the reasons for rotation and at the end of them, the word that inevitably comes to mind is rip off. I've pretty much made up my mind that if rotation comes to my new favorite game that I'm going to stay out of all collectible games permanently. It's a major paradigm shift for me but after years of paying for randomized "rares" and pumping lots of new money in again after "rotations", I've just come to think that maybe, just maybe, there are better ways to spend my entertainment dollars.

If that weren't enough, I'm also starting to feel that minis, even with the new high tech plastics responsible for bringing minis to the "masses", are kind of anachronistic and that the current minis boom is about as big as it's ever going to get--sort of like plate mail--obsolete by the time it was perfected. You don't see much discussion here about this but computer games are a natural competitor of mini games in the strategy game category, and the software that's available and the options for online play just keep getting better and better. In a sense, computer games have already won both the battle and the war.

Sure, if I go virtual, I won't have the physical satisfaction of owning something but on the other hand I also won't have any more problems with storage, my gaming costs are bound to decrease, my ability to play games will not be restricted by the locality or the time zone in which I live and add to that the absence of transportation costs (time and money), participation fees, and sometimes even lodging necessary to play face to face old tech games and I wonder why I still even bother.

Oh, sorry. Was I off topic? Yes, rotation is a part of 2.0. WK knows its days selling this junk are numbered and is just in it to make a quick buck before the fad dies.

I have always thought that all the earlier sets should have simply been retired
Uprising and minions were subpar anyways and I cant wait til a new set finally kicks uprising out
And yes I bought a lot of each including a case of uprising
I do however realley miss low cost filler pieces and these still are useful to contest objectives and tie up figs as they always hve been
I would like to see more cavalry units in a future set

That's a sweeping generalization that has absolutely no factual evidence to back it up.
For 90 percent of a community to up and leave, the game would have bankrupted and the game wouldn't have bothered bringing out new sets.

Meanwhile, something that was missing in the 1.0 set is now a very real option - new players. Without having to have all the broken pieces, new blood is coming into the game. While the quitting of old players does hurt the game, it's an eventuality that happens to every game out there. But the games that survive for the long haul are the ones that bring in new players.