The new titan rules are up at the Wizkids site. New is a bit of a misnomer because they are for all intensive purposes the same. I really hoped for proficiencies or at least shakeoff damage... :(

the main things updated are the fact that Titans are now listed as being immune to certain things (like Trample, Enchantments, and changing friendly/opposing status), and indirect fire is clarified in that the LOF cannot be blocked.

There may have been another change or two that I can't remember right off, too.

they needed proficiencies badly, some of my suggestions were:

1) Titans or MDFs that are not siege engines can use the Trample Proficiency for 2 damage;

2) Titans gain the Smash Proficiency - when targeting a single figure in close combat, add +3 to the Damage value. This cannot be used in combination with the Pounding Proficiency. This attack ignores all Defensive SA's;

4) Titans gain the Pounding Proficency - any figure without Sweep, when making a close combat attack against a single opposing figure, deals damage = to its printed damage value against the target, and 2 damage to every opposing figure in base contact with the Titan. Any figure with Sweep recues its damage by 2 but deals damage even to figures in its rear arc.

5) Massive Size - any non-siege engine or chariot Titan or MDF may attack a figure at Soaring level with a CC attack if the flight cup is in base with the Titan or MDF base (or in wuold be in base with a straight line drawn from the edge of th ebase of a mounted soaring figure). These figures block line of sight from Soaring figures to any other figure, and their LoS is never blocked except by other Titans.

6) Terrify - Because of their monstrous size and power, all non-siege or chariot titans or mdf's have Terrify.

7) all Titans may DT without taking a click, regardless of speed type.

I would go for #1 but 1 damage, #2 but simplify, just allow them to CC soaring figs, maybe play around with immunities to pierce and crushing blow (like Apoc), and possibly make them immune to gang up.These will probably be the rules going forward in my unrestricteds...If anyone read the article a couple of months back about the apocalypse dragon, the article stated the problems with multidials and titans and how they were powering up the Apoc to deal with these. This tells me they are aware of the probs, why are they so afraid to fix it?
Thank you Wizkids for finally putting up castle rules, and for at least giving conquest a rules framework. Now take a good hard look at these figures and formats and make them the best they can be. I can understand why changing a rule is hard when 2 or 3 hundred figs are affected. But there are only what 9 different titans, 2 tanks, 4 dragons, and 3 chariots, it really cannot be that big of a logistical issue to power these up with rules or proficiencies to give them more kick. Playing with the Apocalypse Dragons absolutely Rocks. It is big, intimidating, and an absolute nightmare to bring down. what a Dragon should be. Bring this kind of awe to the rest of the big fig family. The "wow' factor of Gilgaresh battling a swarm of mean nasty orcs is what we need to get people excited about this game again. Showing a player how their big awesome Orc cyclops gets mopped in 3 turns by a few 25 point figures is just sad....

And there is a reason the Apocalypse Dragon is only legal in Unrestricted tournaments, and even then, many Warlords would probably restrict their usage from a "normal" Unrestricted tournament. If the regular Titans/MDWs were given the same benefits as the Apocalypse Dragon, even without the powers, I wouldn't be surprised if Warlords would restrict THEIR usage as well in Unrestricted; but they wouldn't be ALLOWED to in Constructed!

Or it could scare players away. "You mean I'm fighting a Hill Giant again? I guess I'm going to start playing something else." While I do agree that there would be some people that would join the game to see the massive Titans in battle, I don't think it would be a significant amount.


That being said, while I personally wouldn't be opposed to boosting Titans and MDWs a little bit to make them a little more "desirable", I wouldn't be keen on making them even remotely CLOSE to the "shock and awe" power of the Apocalypse Dragon.

To beat the Apocalypse Dragon, you pretty much have to build an army specifically to fight her. I do not think the same should be applied for all Titans and MDWs. The former is a novelty, fun piece. The latter are more "available" for tournament usage.

You can overhaul the MDW rules to hell and back, but I don't think it's ever going to change the fact that both the dragons and the tanks have really lame defense values.

They don't have the best attack values compared to 2.0 standards, either. The highest attack value on the BPR Dwarven Steam Behemoth is 10. That's for a 512 point piece, mind you...

I am not so naive as too think the fix is to make the multi's as powerful as apocalypse dragon, I think you took my flowery "shock and awe" words too literally. I was just trying to accentuate the fact that these things are TITANS of the battlefield and they are weak at best. Do you really think giving them shakeoff damage and allowing them to Close combat soaring figs would overpower them? I am looking for viability not dominance. The main reason I used the Apocalypse dragon for an example is that right in the preview write-up for it, the author (can't remember who the article was by) stated that multi-dial figs had a big problem because of action disadvantage, so they designed around that. I just think they need a little tweak...

:) It is possible I mistook what you meant by "shock and awe" ;)

Again, I think small tweaks may help. But I personally wouldn't be too fond of a massive overhaul of how they work.

I don't have any problems with Titans being potent, but I would have a problem with them being dominating.

I don't think any of my proficiencies would make Titans dominating. As it stands now, they are VERY easily defeated. Play them and you'll see. They are so easily tied up by very weenie figs while strong ones can pick them off. The lack of Sweep on any of them except the IRHG make them waaaaay too vulnerable to a swarm of figs. And even the IRHG's 21 Defense is not so big a deal now. Many "cheap" figs in the game now, with a relic, can get attack values 15 or higher, the titan defenses are just way too low.

I just want Titans to be a little scary! Chroma with a Magestone Shield or a pimped out Black Knight is scarier than most of the Titans out there!

Has anyone noticed this...
okay, the first bullet point states that they are not affected "IF it would cause the titan's friendly and opposing status" and the second bullet point states "NO enchantments"...my question is the Titan can still be affected by spells like Mechanoid or Auraheal because they do not change the friendly or opposing status and are NOT enchantments...also, Auraheal is not Magic Healing...comments?

jgclaw - I apologize; I didn't mean it to sound like I was referring to your suggestions in specific in referring to "dominating" - since I haven't tried your suggestions, I can't really say either way. I was just referring to the concept in general, where some are basically wanting Titans to be "uberpieces" - ie, pieces that are invincible just because they are Titans, pretty much.

I have nothing against making them more potent, within reason, but I really don't have any say in that matter anyway. I also really don't have anything against leaving them the way they are, but that's just my opinion.

MagisterImp - correct.

You could boost up Titan's ability to capture like with Sentinels in Heroclix. Maybe allow them to capture on anything but a "1" (in order to eliminate the captive, you still need to attack it).
Or give them Trample proficiency like Cavalry Units, like stated above (I think 1 pt damage would be enough tho).

As far as the MDW tho, I would think Trample would make more sense on them then it does on a horse.
Maybe some new adventuring companies can be made up to enhance these figures also. I would love an AC that helped Gilgarsh out a bit, and maybe upped the BP Steam Behemoth's defense a bit. Oh and KI and Ram chariots seem to still be viable in games, so maybe some love for the poor left out chariot.

Lastly, the thing suggested about allowing them to base soaring figures is a great idea. Maybe make a rule for them that says they are considered both soaring and battlefield level. This would eliminate the Magic Levitation-instant eliminate trick.

Hey sig, sometime when you are bored ::snicker-snicker:: (I know you don't have much else going on ;) ) Play around with stuff like the proficiencies above. We have (shake off damage, trample, existing at soaring) and they really don't overpower them at all. As was mentioned earlier in the thread the low defense hurts more than anything for keeping their power down. I personally don't like the suggestions about adding to thier damage, sweep, terrify etc. as I agree with you they would tip the scales the other way as far as overpowering them too much. The motivation, at least on my part for "complaining" that the new rules really didn't change anything is not too simply be another annoying negative realmer. What I want is more big cool figs too be produced, and as long as the ones we have are grossly underpowered, they will not sell. If they don't sell (and they didn't) Wizkids will not make them (and rightly so). I am hoping they continue to make these figs even if they do so in smaller quantities, and make them direct ship or convention only stuff. Anyway, I am off to go kill some dracs...Have a good one!

Well, they're not either of those two things, so they affect the titan.

Sorceries, illusions, and glyphs all affect Titans and MDFs as long as they don't change the friendly status of the figure.