The question is do items and relics that give an ability, ie Cloak of the Dervish, add the ability (dodge) to the figure or replace the ability already listed(toughness). If they add to the figure and you add the same ability that is already there, does the figure get double, as if he had a nexus. It makes sense that this is how it should work since you have to pay for the ability. We are having a disagreement in our group as to how this works.

Items and Relics (which are actually special items) do indeed add to what's already on the dial. For instance putting the Cloak of the Dervish on Varatrix would mean that he now has Dodge AND Ghostform.

And abilities do stack also. For instance putting the Cloak of Dervish on Oracle Kastali, who has dodge on her dial already, so if she is successfully attacked , she is allowed to roll dodge twice. However a figure with just one instance of crushing blow will ignore all defense abilities. So Kastli being hit by a healthy Kossak will not be able to roll any dodge even if she had the cloak on.

As a rule of thumb, all special abilities stack. So having more than one instance of it is acceptable. It's just that some special abilities don't mesh with itself. For instance if Anunub were weilding an item that granted Mageblast, he would indeed have 2 occurances of Mageblast, but because the ability consumes a ranged combat action per use, you can only activate one instance of mageblast at a time. Abilities like Arcing fire which don't consume actions stack as well. But a second instance of arcing fire doesn't do anything practical game-wise. For a figure with toughness or invulnerability that gains another copy of the power, you would be able to gain the full benefits of each twice. So if you had double toughness, you would reduce non-piercing, non-crushing blow damage by 2. One thing to take carefukl not of is invul and toughness reduces damage dealt and not damage value, so the Ro3 does NOT apply. Kossak w/ Magestone Armor will reduce non-peirce/non-crushing blow damage by -4.

Finally, the last ability worht discussing is venom. If you had Patchwork (who has venom on the normal slot and on his nexus), wearing cloak of vipers (to gain another venom), and enchanted with cobra's bite (to gain one more venom), you would have a total of 4 instances of venom. Each instance is resolved seperately however so if you put Patchwork based with a healthy Caldera, she would take no damage from venom. The way it resolves is thus:

1. Resolve one instance of venom
2. 1 damage is dealt to Caldera
3. Reduce the damage dealt to caldera by -1
4. Caldera takes 0 damage
5. Repeat steps 1-4 until all instance of venom is resolved.

Interresting thought, but we believe the venoms would act at the same time, much the way mulitple target Flame/Lightning works, two targets, two clicks of damage each but only one if you have toughness. This is stated in a FAQ from 1.0. I don't know if it is even available anymore. But I like the way you think Hero-Guy, I am of the same opinion.

Does anyone else have any thoughts about this?

Scorped

venom effects are applied one at a time and not in one instance. having multiple instances of venom will not affect a figure with toughness or invulnerability. :)

[ag][ag][ag]

K thanks

can you then also 2x counterattack?
thnx

Ye3s you can have 2x counterattack. Actually with spells a figure can theoretically have an unlimited number of counterattacks. And yes, a single miss would trigger ALL instances of counter attack that a figure has. So if you have Throne Monk w/ Gatekeeper standing on an objective token, and Caldera attacks her, but misses, Throne Monk would be able to counter attack twice. The confusing part is if the original attacker has counter attack also, and the original target misses on any of their counterattack rolls.

Also, Scorped, I think house rules are good for the game. They allow players to enjoy the game the way they want to which is, imo a good thing. So you should resolve the multi-venom issue however you and your friends think is best. The official rule, though is the one that I stated. You can find the ruling in the WK Mage Knight Rules Forum. I think it is also in the FAQ, but I'm not 100% sure about that.