I'm sure nobody cares but I thought I would share this since its my first competition against someone other than my brother.

After not playing in League before because none of the local ones got off the ground, we made the trip from Gainesville Florida (home of the Florida Gators) to Jacksonville (home of...the Jaguars?)

It was fun times, but the biggest thing I learned is that everybody isn't as clear on the rules as I thought.

This league ruled the following:

1. If you hit a Total Control home run you get a click up for scoring but not a click up for a hit. Thus you only end up with 2 clicks up. At first they claimed this was an official rule, but later admitted it was a house rule

2. If you play a player OOP (example: I had Luis Castillo at third base) he gets -1 defense for fielding AND throwing attempts. That makes sense to me but thats not how the rules are written

3. If a Speed Demon hits a routine ground ball to a zone that is occupied you still have to make a throwing attempt vs his speed to get the out? By my reading you have only have to make a throwing attempt *instead* of a fielding attempt vs a speed demon. Therefore if there is no fielding attempt you don't need to make a throwing attempt

I'm pretty confident I'm right regarding this but can someone confirm? If not, there is virtually no difference between a GB and a GB Scorcher for a Speed Demon

4. They ruled that if a batter hits a ball that could result in a Double Play he gets +1 to his speed for a Double Play attempt...HUH? The passage in the rulebook they cited involved the batter getting +1 speed IF you didn't have anyone at Second Base to start the DP.

5. This one I have no idea on so I guess I'll just ask. If a run scores on an error, do you still get a pick 'em click up between the runner who scored and the batter?

6. This doesn't count as a rules change but I figured I would mention since this group seemed a little haughty regarding rulings, especially when I asked if I could consult the rules book.

They didn't know that Clutch Hitter kicked in with 2-outs (they thought you need 2 outs AND RISP) and they didn't know everyone involved in a triple play got a click up

7. They said once you started a game, you couldn't adjust which player fielded where. For instance, I tried to move Pujols OOP into Center Field and put Bradley into Left but they wouldn't allow this since I started with Bradley in Center and Pujols in Left

They also played 1800 point limit with no 1000-pt on the field limit. We didn't have teams built for a format like that (since you can pretty much squeeze the best player at every position in for those points) so heres what I came up with (or something similar, I'd have to check my roster to be sure):

C: Lopez
1B: Sweeney
2B: Boone (more in important since batters were getting +1 to their speed for Double Plays)
3B: Castillo OOP
SS: A Rod (Base Set since I don't wanna pay for the XB one)
LF: Pujols
CF: Bradley (I don't necessarily love Milton like some do, but he was the best guy I had with me I think. If I had to abide by the 1000 pts on-the-field limit I planned to use Drew)
RF: Juan Gonzalez (I don't own Ordonez or he would definitely see action)
DH: Chipper (might have been better if I'd used Helton instead. I think Chipper is potentially the better OBP player, and don't like Helton taking two clicks to get Yellow Fly power)

SP1: Maddux (Won my first game, gave up 1 ER)
SP2: Glavine (Lost game 2, gave up 2 ER)
SP3: Pettitte (DNP)
SP3: Morris (DNP)

RP1: Guardado
RP2: Percival

That still left me with 52 pts left. They told me that you really only needed 4 SPs (I'm not real clear on why) so thats what I went with.

A few metagame observations:

1. I wasn't really sure what the value of Intimidation batters would be. If alot of players used the Leadership pitchers, Intimidation gets *real* good, especially ARod and Thome, both of whom can Intimidate AND still take a Yellow Fly.

The reason this is true is that alot of times 1 click down knocks a pitcher like Pettitte or Morris off of Leadership, PLUS those teams need more relief since their pitchers are normally 6 and done. And one click down can totally destroy an RP, esp if hes in his second inning...

2. The value of Paint The Corners may seem low, but I think they're a little underrated. Drawing a walk (esp with 2-outs so that there's no chance of a DP) can kill a 3u3d and against a lot of pitchers, that's big because they are slightly vulnerable until they get a few clicks up. There are no ways for a pitcher to click down until the 7th inning basically (unless they are IP 5 or give up more than 5 runs, both of which are rare) so even the mediocre pitchers (think Roy Oswalt for example) have all routine outs on their dial. The longer you keep him on or near his starting click (and breaking up 3u3ds helps in that regard) the better your chances of getting some easy baserunners.

That, to me, is the two-fold value of what I refer to as the "high OBP"guys (ie batters who start with 2 colored results in the middle of their dial). The first thing they do is get on base which can disrupt the opposing pitcher, which can be big since almost any SP can turn in the Shutout if allowed to get to 6 hot without much resistance.

Secondly, they can sit on a pitcher's weakness. For instance, if your batter has a colored result in his his Target/Bat slot, look at Greg Maddux. His Ball/Bat result is a Fly ball Scorcher which is none-too-shabby for the offense.

So as the batter you can roll the blue die and have close to to a 50% chance of getting a colored result just from either the Target/Bat slot (if the pitcher rolls Contact) or Maddux's Ball/Bat (if the pitcher rolls Velocity)


Conversely the thing to avoid on offense is the Target/Bat Routine groundout and even the Groundball Scorcher. That lets the defense take advantage of the fact that 90% of pitchers have a routine GB in the Target/Spark slot which makes it likely you will regularly erase base runners.

I was concerned that everyone would be using the cheese combo of walking a batter (esp with zero outs) to pitch to some on-deck batter with the easy GB out, especially when the bottom of the order is up. But since they play 1800 pts, they really aren't forced to play the bad/defense part of the order like 1000 pts can force you to, so this was a non-issue really.

Even if the offense bunts with zero outs there is a 1/6 chance of a DP chance and a 1/6 chance of a K (which means they can try for the DP the following at bat).

So, does anybody have any comments on those rules issues I listed? Was I wrong on any of them?

Thanks!

Thanks FBI for the post, as it is interesting to see how people interpret the rules.

1) You are right on the Speed Demon part. If a routine grounder is hit to a fielder, it doesn't matter what they got they are out. Speed Demon only clicks in when Scorcher or routine in the hole.

2) You are also correct on the DP. You don't get any + to the runner just because they are trying a double play.

3) I am not sure what the rules say, but we play where even on the error if a runner scores, either the runner or the batter can get the click. I believe that is the rule, but not totally confident.

and just a another point, the Clutch Hitter is obvious but I didn't know about the triple play rule that all involved get a click. I hate the triple play rule, because in real baseball a triple play is way to rare, and in sportsclix, it is easier to do. I have hit into a triple play 3 times in the 5 months I have been playing.

Thanks again, and I hope that helps.

really want to reply, but not enough time. I'll take a crack at this later tonight or tomorrow morning.

I think I know what was going on in that league. You know how everyone was complaining that the game lacked offense? In each one of those house rules the change or discrepency favors the batter or runners to produce more offense. I think that is what is really going on, rather than lack of rules knowledge or gamesmanship. Just my two cents.

This totally contradicts BucsFan's reasoning. This is very detrimental for clicking up on offense. Personally I don't understand it. I guess they are assuming the ball will be hit, so you don't get 2 clicks for the hit, just one.

This would be ok in certain conditions. I would assume a 2B playing SS can throw to first easy enough. However, an IF playing OF would definitely find himself in a strange world.

You only have to do a throwing and fielding if the SD player was on base. Ex. SD runner on first, scorched GB hit to 3rd. #rd baseman would field the ball (fielding check to see if gb or 1b) then a throw to second to see if he beat the runner coming from first.

Again, you are right, they are wrong.

the batter does not get an rbi on an error, so only the runner would eligible to receive the click (or give it away if he had leadership)

Considering their other rulings, I'm not surprised.

Nothing saying you can't do this as long as you follow OOP rules.

Only counting 4 SP here. But I think you need 5 in order to avoid tiredness.

I think FBI is the new player who played at our league last Friday, so let me try to defend our stands on certain rulings. And yes, we have recently reviewed such rulings and made changes. Given, we had only three players in our league before the new folks showed up, so to let them know what was house rules was not in our minds at the time. I myself was not the player directly involved, nor am I the Coach/Judge, but I had some EMAILs between myself and the Coach, and I will be sure to direct him to this post after I post my Two Cents....

Our group has played with monthly league play since the beginning, and originally, the adding of the click as a result of a Hit after Total Control was never added. We have been consistent within our group, and left it as such. The player who played was adamant that this was ruled as such, but I later pointed out that it was ruled as such here, but we as a group did not play that way. It was unfortunate call, but we erred on being consistent on what we have done. Again, as mentioned by FBI, it was pointed out as a house rule. Thus, I notified our Coach, and such rules will be left at the store for notice to new players. This may change for December's League, so at that time, we may be consistent with everyone's rulings. I am not the Coach, so I;ll wait and see what is decided.

We referred to the ruling per the Tournament Rules, Section 1.2.7:

The penalty applies to Fielding, but not Throwing attempts. Again, the other player at our venue may not have known that there is a difference and thought the penalty applies to both....

Here is what I sent to our Coach regarding this, which is in line with the rulings, although we will admit we did play it wrong:


So we've addressed our mistake, and we will play ball accordingly....

I'm not sure what is meant here, but here's what I know we do. If after a Fielder's Choice, an infielder has a chance to throw out another runner for a Double Play, the runner gets a +1 bonus to their Speed as he is the target of a Second Out. This is per Page 11 of the Rulebook, second bullet for Double Plays, as such:

I think there was simply a miscommunication here, but if FBI meant something else, then please clarify....

Sure, we don't know everything. And we do allow anyone to look up rules. I looked up up the rule regarding the triple play, and it was I who benefited from the triple play. TO say we were haughty is one thing, but to say we don't allow anyone to look up rules is not true....

Now, if FBI is coming back on Friday, I'll have my team ready. If you are allowed to move players from one position to another mid game, I guess that's fine. Yes, you would have to follow OOP rules. Just in case, we do follow the Tournament Rules, and thus maybe why we mentioned having Four SP's. Here's a direct link for FBI should he want to print it out.

http://www.wizkidsgames.com/sportscl...ment_rules.pdf

I'll have my copy as well, plus will have a copy of the rulebook, and of the FAQ, and also a copy of the EMAIL to our coach. So above all, let's get these rulings straight, play ball, and have fun!

I really see no reason why you are doing this other than you never did it before. Why not play this per standard rules?


See bold above. In this case refers to the fielder having to move into the zone.

Okay, so I see your point now. I guess we neglected the part "in this case"....

I did make a point to share this thread with our group, so if we just need to re-learn the rules a little more better, than so be it.

Happy gaming everyone.

Hey JAYCE

I hope you didn't misunderstand the reason I was posting: I was just glad to have some new people to play against :)

There were quite a few rules questions that popped up and I really just wanted to make sure I understood them correctly. My purpose wasn't to come on here and complain; in fact just the opposite!

Anyway:

Actually, I think before you got there this came up with Joe and he insisted it was an official rule but you corrected him.

Its a little bit important to me since my evaluation of a few players changes when they only go to Hot-2 instead of Hot-3 on a Total Control homer.

OK, again none of the rule interpretations were a big deal to me, other than clarifying what the correct rule is. I thought that both you and Joe said that a player OOP got -1 defense...but thats definitely how Joe made me play

In retrospect haughty is too strong a word. And I definitely wasn't saying you didn't allow me to consult the rulebook.

What I was really talking about is that on several questions such as +1 speed to the batter on DPs and GB Scorcher throwing attempts, you were both kind of adamant that you were right.

In fact, I pointed out the exact same passage as bamf did regarding DPs to Joe, but he didn't even seem to be listening.

As for Clutch Hitter and Triple Plays, I wasn't trying to criticize you guys at all, I was just surprised that those things hadn't come up before bc they pop up alot in our games.

Oh, one rules realted addendum. In the rulebook I think it says that there is a pick 'em click for Driving In A Run which can go either to the batter or the runner who scored.

On an error the run isn't "driven" in so to speak. I assumed the batter couldn't take the click, but why can the runner? The click isn't for scoring a run exactly...

Thanks!

That's a very good question. I didn't look up the wording. Diaperman should probably make a ruling on this.

Personally, I would think the runner would get the click because he scored, regardless of how he scored (error, wild pitch, balk, etc.).

Either Batter or runner may take this click

Why can the batter take the click? He didn't drive in the run. The runner scored on an error, the batter should have been out.