I expected good Trevor to open it but as it has been awhile I openit myself.

The meaning is to discuss armies and how to solve tactical problems.

SAD was hard to hit so we see CJF Goshawks. SAD has problems hitting high defense so we see Hammerfell.

The metagame although having a somewhat bad reputation, is just whatwe as players do how we react on each other armies.

If you play vs. Merc FP every week you start to bring True Grit.

The floor is opn for Discussion.

Past members who participated :

Trevor the Awesome
MechTran
BAW
Zxqueb
Rearly

And all those i cant recall at the moment.

the floor isopen for discussion.

If I might start a topic

How are going to beat Hammerfell + BR FP ?

Elite, just so the new people (and probably me as well) know what you're referring to, can you please give a description of what exactly is SAD?

Oh, not the emotion:cry:

First thoughts on Hammerfall:

Most large Mechs hate to be surrounded by infantry swarms. Keeping HF based with multiple infantry units prevents the Atlas from making assault orders, special attacks, and also prevents repair (from other units, not the BR card).

If the FP card is a big concern, take True Grit. SAD usually does anyway. Otherwise, just work to keep HF and/or any repairing units based at all times, and damage HF heavily enough that 1 click of repair per turn won't be enough.

Coming from a Kurita perspective I would want to build around the Kami Shiro with Kenshin as the pilot with a supporting coolant truck. I don't have heavy IT so being able to shoot every turn is important seeing that I would have an 11 av against a dv of 22-25. The rest of the points would go into a light mech and infantry to deal with Hammerfalls support.

I personally would bring lots of AP to the field since what I see as a big problem is it being able to repair back into hardened armor. Also try and kill and repair units the player has.

Ok, the metagame looks at what is played succesfully by a lot of people and how people react on that. Sort of evolution as it happens.

During last Worlds SAD Seka Pride + Aiko + Decoy Become world champion. As such it was the focus to beat for the next biggest Championships for the Europeans.

People tried allkind of solutions, ranging from Charging to virus decoy jammer to CJF Goshawks. I also felt that the Slayer was a good match for SAD.

Milamber smart guy and brilliant player just played Hammerfell let SAD try to hit him specialy as he was a zombie, regenerates by way of BR FP.

I have to agree that SLayer altoh it can beat SAD it should lose vs. Hammerfell. Because of the No ArP (Armour Pierecing)

Now all these devolopments is what I expect people will use in their preparations for their various nationals. If it is MW not Solaris that is.

I hope that helps a bit.

Regards
E130

Now you make this vary difficult. 11 Att no IT means you will miss an 22 Defense 50 % of the time. If you assault it goes to 70+% that you miss.

Shiro+Kuro Ha is a good army but it assumes IT on Shiro and BAP or Brawling on Kuro Ha.

Sorry in a comeptitive enviroment you cannot invest 300 points insomething that miss so much. I cannot give an solution for such a mech maybe some one else can.

Regards
Elite130

Not to be a pain but say we have Hammerfell with a 13 att. Behind it is a BR Soli with repair maybe even 2.

So wheni try to shoot that Hammerfell will destroy whatever isent after this repair unit in no time.

i dont think this will work tbh.

My solution to a Hammerfall army would be maneuverability. His range is only average and he is by no means fast. The old rule for engaging an assault then applies. Pick off support and just avoid him. There's no rule saying you have to go take out his biggest guy. I also think the MDFA tactic that holds true to SAD also still holds true for Hammerfall. Recently I've been thinking of trying out Black Rose with Yulri Wolf and coolant Pod. That gets you BR with 9 speed, 12 attack and 24 defense and coolant pod for only 305 points. That means you'll have at least 61 points on him too (assuming BR Pride).

If you know in advance that there is a high likelihood of seeing a HAZ (HAmmerfall-zombie) army then there are several things to consider:

1. True Grit. This helps negate some of its repair and also is useful to negate Merc FP in other matches which you almost undoubtedly will see in a high level tourny.

2. Constant Tremors. No repair for you. This doesn't stop the BR FP ... but if you also have True Grit on the field then that means no repairs for him at all (unless he Perfect Days you).

3. Keep up the pressure. This translates to a high level tank drop + support. By which I mean a WH Kelswa with some long range infantry formation buddies to get in the initial hit for 6 AP. Follow up with expendable infantry (hoverbikes, ATVs, etc) to prevent followup repair. And also follow up with arty. Preferably multi-target AP (thus the prime candidate would be the SS A4). Continue to pog. You simply can NOT afford to let a HAZ army rest. If he gets a chance to rest, then he repairs, and you're toast.

Maybe one Heavy, say the CW Thor. Then some fast infantry.

at the same time you use a long range mech like the thor to shoot the repair mech, have the infantry/vehicles move in to base hammerfall.

Staying out of hammerfalls range and shooting solitaires should work nicely. The only problem here is if the person brings A-Class AnP

You can also just opt to shoot hammerfal from 16" then base it with infantry so it can't be repaired by solitaires.



The only safe way I see to deal with hammerfal is with a 16" range and up and having basers.

I don't know - you might be able to streak the repair unit. Slayer is actually a pretty good choice for this, due to 16 range. Combine with True Grit, so that the Soli or whatever is back there with Repair can't repair itself of the 3 clicks you hit it with, and you're in business.

Usually, TD and Arty is a good counter for big fatties. The problem against Hammerfall is that he can basically ignore Arty. In order to crack his armor, you need to bring ArP. Even if you hit, you're only doing 2 damage. Faction pride and Repair will get him back to green in short order. You can try to bring multiple Arty to stack that damage, but now you're using up a lot of points on artillery.

TD is great for cracking fattie units. However, you need to bring something else that can chase him down and finish him off. If you've brought a formation drop and a couple (or more) ArP artllery, you really don't have a lot of points left for another big stick and the support needed to prevent the repair attempt.

I think people are touching on the correct tactic, keeping Hammerfall busy w/ harassers while trying to go after the repair unit/mech. However, a smart player will keep the two units close together, using Hammerfall to shield the repair unit and making sure it's out of range of units w/ streaks.

So this is what has been defined so far....

Speed
High AV
High damage value prefer armor pierce
Min 16" range

What unit provides those capabilities?
Do they need to happen at the start of the dial or into the dial.?

No No, all that does is heat you up and allow that mech to regenerate. Like AsGrad siad you gotta base it and keep it based or attack its support. you will burn through your support fast but then you will have an opportunity to make a move,now stay with me here.........capture!!! aint I crazy or what.JK

I have had times where I salvaged HF twice in one game and still the thing came back.if you get an opportunity be relentless