If I need to cross post this on ClassicBattletech too to get some traction, let me know, otherwise if you post over there as well and know some rulemongers, get em to check here and chime in too please.

I have searched the FAQ, Errata, etc and if anything clarifies C3i wording, I have missed it.

Just so you know point scales and such, no more venues around here....we play one night a week: 1,350 points, 4 hour free for all on a 4 foot board...usually 3 to 4 players depending who shows up. Sometimes teams and scenarios, but usually every man for himself....lovely chaos.

Anyway, so with that size army, we are talking 4 C3i cards that one other guy finally accumulated, so the potential +3 is what we are looking at. I've resisted the urge to break mine out before now since I have questions about them and have gazillions of other stuff to play. My adversary last week finally broke his out though, so now I can no longer procrastinate, but need to get some clarity, lol.

C3i
When this unit makes a ranged combat attack against a single target opposing figure, it gets +1 (to a maximum of +3) to its attack value for each other figure friendly to it that is also assigned C3i gear and that also has clear line of fire to the target and could make a ranged combat attack against it.

First question is this. I contend that the phrase "and could make a ranged combat attack against it" means that your C3i bonus declines as you go around the lance firing away.

In other words: Mech 1 goes first and makes an attack with +3 because Mech 2,3, and 4 meet all other criteria to help with C3i.

Since Mech 1 has now attacked already that turn, it cannot make an attack against the target any longer, so its C3i doesn't contribute when Mech 2 goes to attack.

Mech 2 gets a bonus from Mech 3 and 4 which still have not been given an order this turn so still "could make a ranged combat attack"... their bonuses still apply.

Again, because Mech 1 has already gone this turn, it seems to me it no longer meets the criteria of the C3i card.

That way, instead of all 4 mechs getting +3, it's a little less broken. First attacker gets all other C3i bonuses, then it declines with each subsequent attacker :)

I guess I could be crazy on this, and that "and could make a ranged combat attack against it" language might just be there for instances say, where one of the C3i mechs in range is in salvage..since it's salvaged it cannot attack and would thus not be able to help out other mechs with the C3i bonus.

Any other reasons for that clause about "could make an attack"?

Another player argued that C3i costs a good bit, you have to dedicate it to those 4 mechs instead of other gear, PLUS you have to expose yourself to counter-attack by getting in range with all 4 in the first place.. the +3 for all 4 shooters seemed fine to him given all those conditions.

Well, that argument would seem fine and dandy if it weren't for streaks and how we interpreted it last week.


C3i says the other figures that contribute to the bonus have to have a clear line of sight. The other guy had his 4 C3i mechs equipped with streaks and parked behind blocking.


STREAK MISSILES (optional)
When this unit makes a ranged combat attack targeting a single opposing figure, it ignores figure bases and terrain for line of fire purposes. If the attack
succeeds, this unit gets –1 to its damage value for this attack, minimum 1. This attack may not target a shutdown ’Mech or a unit with Electronic Camouflage special equipment.

Streaks says you ignore terrain for line of fire purposes. I can't see any other way to rule on this except that yes, you really can hide behind blocking with C3i, and frag away with your streaks AND your bonus.

That very workaround with Streaks is another reason I think on the first ruling, once a mech has attacked, it can no longer attack nor help with a bonus.

The argument that the big bonus is at the price of exposing yourself into range and line of fire no longer holds true with the Streak exploit, lol.

I'm not sure on this first question you have. Really it's the first time I've heard of this question. It really makes me re-think them. As you pointed out, the restrictions on the card and the points vested, makes the C3i combo costly. I would wager that WK didn't think or indend the C3i to work as a decreasing bonus though your turn.

Now that Streak thing. No way should that work. Streaks allow you to ignore the terrain and bases for attacking. Not ignore bases and terrain for C3i.

Now using Mech A with C3i (attack CEC) and Streaks (ballistic SE) against a target while Mech B & C have range and LOS is a neat idea. But hiding Mechs and trying to give C3i bonuses, no. So Mech A could get the bonuses, but when Mech B or C fires, they would not get any C3i bonus from Mech A.

Wanna throw more gas on your weekly fire? Shoot Homing Beacon at something first. Then from behind blocking use your ballistic C3i's. :devilish grin: Or use LE Jules N Jack combo.

Anyone else wanna throw thier 2 C-bills here?

OK, here is my thought on the first question. Yes I think every mech would get +3 and it would NOT degrade. The line about and can make an attack means the unit is in range, the unit has an attack value greater then zero, and has a damage value greater then zero. That covers three reasons a mech could have line of site but still not be able to make an attack at the target.

And as far as the streak goes, you cannot combine it. Per the rules as written you cannot combine two abilites at the same time. This is from page 37.

"A gear CEC provides special equipment to a ’Mech’s combat value. If a combat value would receive special equipment from two different sources (for example, one from the combat dial and one from gear), only one may apply at a time, unless the gear states otherwise."

I hope this helps and keep in mind that house rules trump all in fun play. ;)

Thorfur, I'm thinking that you are misunderstanding part of this rule - specifically the meaning of "combat value". A combat value is any of the five values showing on a mech's dial. What this rule means is that no two special equipment can be applied to a single combat value.... In other words, one SE and one gear on the Primary weapon cannot both apply unless the gear states that it works with the value already on the dial. In the case of C3i, this rule does not apply when combined with Streak Missles because they are on different combat values (Attack plus either the primary or secondary ballistic damage).

With that in mind, C3i could not be combined with Improved Targeting SE.

As we've also discussed on the Classicbattletech.com forums, the friendly units with C3i gear would not add to the attacking unit's attack value if they had their line of sight blocked because of the first line in the Streak missile SE:

When this unit makes a ranged combat attack targeting a single opposing figure, it ignores figure bases and terrain for line of fire purposes.

Because the other friendly units with C3i gear are not making a ranged combat attack at the moment that your active unit is making a ranged combat attack, the friendly C3i units do not have a clear line of fire.

Hope that helps.