Does anyone else find the minimum of 60 cards to a deck a little odd?

Consider that if an average game lasts 8 turns you will only go through 20 cards without some sort of drawing mechanism. That means that in the average game, 67% or more of your deck goes unused.

The only reason for this rule I can see is to force players to get more copies of powerful cards for their decks to increase the chances they actually get drawn in any particular game. So then its just a rule to make Upper Deck more money by forcing us to seek out multiples of rare cards if we want to win.

Honestly, they could limit it at 40 cards and it would still allow for plenty of variation from game to game. 60 seems a bit excessive.

Does anyone play the 2 out of 3 format with the rule that you don't reshuffle between games? i.e. when the first game ends you KO the cards in play and start the second game where the first ended leaving the KO'd pile and draw deck alone. This would make sure the experience changes from game to game and also would give some use to the 40 odd cards still sitting in your deck.

Thoughts?

I agree that is super lame! Games should not favor that heavy wallets!

I personally hate the 60 card limit. I've opened a ton of packs, formed a deck around Doom, and knowing that I wouldn't put enough cards in (I'm used to leaner deck limits), I put in everything I could think of and STILL only hit 55... so then I had to add in another 5 just to get it to 60. Not only that, but I know that the vast majority of these cards aren't going to see the light of day when I play.

50 or even 40 would be incredible I think, perhaps that'll change in a later rules set or something... I can only hope anyway. It's actually the only rule that bugs me LoL.

The reason it is 60 cards is just like magic.

1) Yes, it does make you get multiple copies of a card to see it. They are a business and trying to make money. The 60 card limit is too expensive to finish but not too cheap either.

2) You generally don't use more than 3 copies of a card unless you NEED IT OUT. The only cards like that right now are The New Brotherhood, Negative Zone, and Dr.Doom (but there are multiple versions of this card).

3) Even though alot of your deck goes unused, there are still lots of things to put in to thin your deck out. If you play Sentinel deck, you can use Trask. He drops down in the support row and takes one Sentinel Army Card from your deck of your choise. Any deck can use Genosia to draw cards. I haven't looked at Fantastic Four really carefully but I know they can search for equipment like crazy and there is that one uncommon that lets you keep searching for Thing.

and to Magneto Rising - Doombots! Every Doom deck can use more Doombots.

Well I would have many Doombots, but the problem is that they seem to be a difficult Uncommon to snag. 33 Packs and I only have one... some of these UC cards are tricksy! :)

I can see that search cards are going to be crucial in this game... other games I played, the mentality was "instead of having the search card, just put another copy of that card in the deck" (generally speaking). The idea was that you were going to go through your deck anyway, so why bother wasting cards searching - a good shuffle should get you what you wanted. With this game, you'll likely never reach the bottom of that deck so you'd better start fishing...

Early search/draw gives you better draws later on since there are less cards to draw from.

It doesn't matter the game, it's always true.

Yu-Gi-Oh - Pot of Greed
Magic - too many to name
Marvel - Trask, Genosha, Lots of Doom stuff.

The sentinel deck I play with currently doesn't have any Trasks because the two stores I go to don't have any.

I think the larger deck limit is due to the fact that you play resources. Its true by Turn 8 you only used about 1/3 of the deck but what if you're playing with more than 2 players. Maybe they're trying to encourage multiplayer.

I agree though, a smaller deck limit would be awesome. Cut it down to 40 and restrict cards from 4 to 3.

Well the main reasons might be less obvious:
1. Sixty card decks are a staple size for tournament play. They are harder to abuse with grifting styles-ie cheating.
2. long term. I'm not sure how many of you started in alpha/beta for magic, but the decks were crazy at the begining. Sometime the optimal player can hurt everyone else with his 40 card deck and make game too fast. If the decks were only 40 cards everyone would play brotherhood and only think about the short term.
3. Planning for the futureWhen making the rules for a game you have to look in the long term. I'm positive that there will be more strategy and more card drawing in the later expansions. They are not completely foolhardy when the came out with the size, and i gurantee some people talked about smaller deck sizes. But, in the end go with what people know. If a certain card game has been really sucessful the it isn't some big mystery that their method has facilated their sucess.

Locally, they're planning a tournament every other Wednesday with only 40 cards in a deck.

The 60 cards introduces a level of luck, it evens the playing field, it forbids broken combos that lead to first turn wins.

Playing with 40 cards is easier and cheaper, but don't expect to get the same draw in a real, sanctioned tournament.

The draft and sealed decks are smaller, but the 60 cards in this game bring an entire new dimension to competitive play. Yes, it is expensive. No, it is not bad.

I agree with stubarnes. This is a card game afterall. If you eliminate the element of luck you might as well be playing ... i don't know ... HeroClix!?

Stu said it. The 60 cards adds the randomness factor that will make this a fun game to play.

The Fantastic Four's very power will be in their ability to search for cards so if you've got to have the card in hand that's your team to play with. Signal Flare, Four Freedoms Plaza and Yancy Street all lend themselves to making sure you've got what you need in hand when you need it, as does Mr. Fantastic's equipment searching skills.

sorry, but heroclix has more luck than playing with an 80 card deck. i mean i agree with the 60 card rule, it is i just can't resist getting a couple of cheap knocks against HC.

supersenses, B/C/F, breakaway, regerneration, soppurt,even basically attacking, involves the luck of the dice, and i have seen newbies beat the most methodical tacticions all becuose of lucky die rolls.

yeah, nothing personal dave, i just had to get my daily allotment of heroclix bashing in while i still could.:p

There is one pretty good tech that'll get tons of cards in your hand, while thinning out your deck(which will give you a better chance of drawing certain cards)

Get out either Night Vision or Base of Operations, and Longshot. I'm running a Sentinel deck with tons of army Sentinel cards. use night vision or BOO to look at your top card. Tap Longshot to name two cards(since you know the top card just name that one), with lots and lots of Sentinels you have a greater chance of overturning the right cards.

I used this combo twice last night and had over 30 cards in my hand. Which means 30 less cards in my deck that I don't have to worry about drawing.

you are running Longshot in your Sentinel deck? With Night Vision and BOO? Nice touch. It threatens to bog down any speed strategies you might have, but if you can get it all in place you can make up for it. This is the nut of the situation... the hippie's combo can get you through ten extra cards, but how do you assure that you will get the combo working with a 60 card, 4 copy deck?