Filler:
After hearing some feedback on my earlier questions about he balance of luck and strategy in this game, I put a little more money into it and my perception is changing.

I don't want to pour money into boxes of boosters quite yet, so I bought a few boosters and weeded through a box of commons and uncommons in an attempt to aquire the cards necessary for a strategically sound Brotherhood deck.

Initially I went with 6 "1 drops" and 6 "2 drops", but then I thought while this would increase the chance of a pre-emptive strike, it would also increase the chance that I would have a hand full of weak cards. I guessed this would give my opponent a chance for a sudden surge at the end. I ended up leaving four of every level up to 6 and I put four copies of New Brotherhood in, because I still wanted to capture an early lead.

I don't want to go off-topic in this thread and be moved to the deck-garage, so I'll stray back to my initial thoughts.

I was playing against a buddy with a Doom deck. I lost the first game, in which I was unable to draw any 1 or 3 drops. I then pretty much dominated the next three games, mostly due to the Blob and New Brotherhood. After those games, I can easily see how some people claim that the Vs. system is based less on chance than many other card games.

Main Observation:
The impression I have now concerning the Vs. system is that deck construction has a very polar effect on how much luck plays into a given game.

A new player who's deck is comprised of a great variety of cards with varied effects will rely heavily on chance, and could be victorious through almost no skill of his own if his opponent has a similarly constructed deck.

On the other hand, a player who's deck is made up of several copies of a few cards has a good chance of drawing those cards, and if that is the case has nobody to blame but himself if he loses.

What do you all think?

I totally agree with the first observation regarding the new player, however, it can be proven that you could take two identical decks played by players of equal skill levels to a tournament and, through random pairings and random draws, one could concievably win the tournament and the other could come in last, CONCIEVABLY. Luck plays a part in any card game, whether it is VS Sysytem, Blackjack, MTG or poker. Granted the mulligan allows for some control over the randomness of the draw, but even that is a chance unto itself. While you can do your best to counter the luck factor, it must always be considered...

To put this into perspective:

In the short run, luck plays a HUGE factor.

In the long run, skill plays a HUGE factor.


To put this into a Poker perspective:

In the short run, a bad player can beat a Pro.

In the long run, the Pro will take all the money from a bad player.

If you want to get a good idea of how many characters to run and what curve of character costs works best then hop over to the Pro Circuit sub-forum and look at some of the top 8 deck lists from some of the bigger tournaments.

I think you're seeing how CCGs work in a more revealing light now. Luck is definitely there but skill in deck construction and decision making during the game far outweighs it.

Excellent thread. Take out all the weak scattered decks, (like mine) put only the 12 best players together, give them random strong decks. Different winner everytime?

Then you have to talk about the metagame. This wonderful system has its own form of trumps. Brotherhood (barely) trumps FF. Sentinels trumps brotherhood, but most everything else trumps Sentinels. Gabe Walls rides Sentinels to 3rd/4th place at Origins, by gauging the metagame. Is that luck, or deep skill?

My first real post!

I come from a wargame background where deep knowledge of the rules, and how to best exploit them, made a big difference in the outcome of a game. Randomness of die rolls rarely, if ever, decided the outcome of an entire game.

Vs. is a special card game in that it does require deep knowledge of the rules, and how cards behave within them, in order to achieve consistent victory. Luck can win battles, but only skill wins wars.

Z

Confidence also plays a big role in winning.

If you KNOW you are going to win, you don't give up on turn 4 when things are going bad. Therefore, you are able to capitalize when they have a bad turn 5 or turn 6.

Zman... I told you that you were a real person. Now, go play like one.