Ok, here is the plan. We have major decks (see... net-decks) that everyone wants to run for major events. You know the usual suspects, Curve Sents, Titans, MKKO, etc.... So what I want to do is throw out a few cards that really counter (or hurt) these common deck themes.

This doesn't mean it is an auto win, and it sure doesn't mean that the cards are easy to work into a deck. But if we take a look at the valuable paths to counter these common decks, maybe we can start to see some new deck options that can break open this Meta.

We want to look at both Golden and Modern for this, and we will look at single cards and also teams/themes. My hope is that this gets people thinking, and we see some shifting in a Meta that many people feel is getting pretty homogenous.

I will post just my ideas on each one to start it, and then we can get everyone elses ideas on it and let the thread grow into a counter tool-box as it were.

Up first........

#1 Countering Curve!

Ok, what cards and themes can hurt the purple people eaters? This is really the top played deck right now, but is it necessarily the strongest? If a Curve wins their first match, they will have a strong day because it plays well against the normal Meta right now. It is consistent. It has a clear ability to finish when it wants to finish. Often it is a matter of keeping the game alive until 6 or 7, then you take the kill on your initiative.

But if you pay attention, if you see someone drop their first match with Curve, and get bumped into the lower bracket of most tourneys, they don’t have the same success as the top bracket. This is true with Titans also. These decks performs well against the established Meta, but the rogue decks and one offs can put a major hurting on it. Everyone watches the top half of the brackets, but one bad draw sends them into a whole new world, a world where they have a much harder time pulling out victories.

So what cards and decks hurt them then?

Cards – Characters

This should be a short list, right? Other than the mirror for Bastion, or a counter Hounds lock, most things shouldn’t hurt them too much right? Well, not exactly.

Wolverine- Berserker Rage…. What a mean 7 drop. And for all those Mark V’s out there, he is almost instant death. Now sure, the Bastion effect can try to save your character, but since he will be picking on the 4 and below crowd, it will take an awful lot of pumps to save them. Just 2 or 3 attacks and readying can seal the deal for the X-Men with him.

Ant Man- Scott Lang… who cares if your Mark V is ready, Ant Man can let you push that breakthrough in anyway. He is a liability on the field unless your build has other reinforcement, but their formation can become moot if you will punch through with a big guy like Thing or Hulk on their front row.

Magneto- Eric Lensherr… exhausting a character on your initiative is good. Exhausting a Mark V for that target is GREAT. Also worth mentioning, Blob on 4 is a wall that even a Sentinel player will have a hard time coming over. Brotherhood is not dead, it certainly has the characters to match up against the Sentinels well.

Azrael- Jean Paul Valley… basically he KO’s robots, plain and simple. The fact that he is a 6 drop limits this usefulness, but in a deck that could ready him and attack more than once, he eats Mark V’s like Tic Tacs.

Dick Grayson <> Nightwing- High Flying Acrobat… double stuns on army? Boost out to stun a Mark V? Yeah, this guy has the goods.

Cassie Sandsmark…. If you pump her a bit, and keep the Mark V’s and Nimrods of the world out of the picture, she can be a game staller against Bastion and Magneto. If you give her Reinforcement for the turn, all they can do is sit and stare at her.

Lady Shiva- Master Assassin…. Direct KO on a Bastion or Magneto? Yeah, that’s pretty good no matter how you slice it.

Spiderman- The Amazing Spiderman… let’s face it, if you get to 7 and have him in your deck, you probably have the deck build to draw the characters you need. This guy is almost criminal he is soooooo good. Who can win against his effect? Well, that’s another entry now isn’t it?

Alistair Smythe… not saying he makes a Syndicate deck a real contender, but against the curve he is guaranteed gold. You know what they will play. And if you name Magneto, that means no 4 draw Genoshas for them.

Gangbuster… man, pull that Hound out of hiding and you also get to stun the Mark V for free? That’s nice.

Superman- Blue… yeah, he pretty much stuns at will in a good build. If you have a way to restore the token (Emil?) and a single press the attack or readying effect, he takes down both Bastion and Magneto in the same turn even.

Glorious Godfrey…direct exhaust for the Mark V? and they take 4? Yeah, that’s good.

U-Go-Girl- Tragic Teleporter… so, she can bounce your opponents Hound back to hand, That’s really good.

Venus Dee Milo- Dee Milo…. Sure, you bounce her to hand to do it, but you can attack down curve, then bounce her to get rid of Nimrod even if he has the token. As long as the deck is build to let your 5 drop stand against Bastion, this is a pretty effective way to hurt Sentinels.

Zeitgiest… he stuns no matter how big a character is. If you stun the character he is currently attacking, then he readies to attack elsewhere. Ya know, the X-Statics might be stronger against the Meta than most people think.

Varnae… he really makes your opponents decisions harder. He basically guarantees you will get one stun back on turn 7, and his effect doesn’t need to be used while he is the defender.

Evil Star & Fatality… have to mention these together. What a brutal 1 and 2 punch. If you are swarming well, these keep your opponent to 1 character, maybe 2, on the field. And having so few characters is much easier to contain.

Sub Mariner- Atlantean Monarch….. not devastating, but being able to exhaust the Mark V when he comes into play, then swing into whomever else you want is pretty good.

Scarlett Witch- Mistress of Chaos Magic… they will need to sue Bastion early, because if they wait until the combat phase, she takes away their ability to use it. Not game breaking, but it let’s you see where their pumps are going, and how many there are, before you decide your attacks.

Blizzard…. Ok, a 2 drop that basically takes any opponent out of the fight completely? Targetted exhaustion and formation breaking? On a 2 drop? Yeah, him moving out a Mark V and taking it’s reinforcement effect away is great. On top of that, you can prevent a swing back form Bastion or Magneto with him also. Just a really strong character.

Radioactive Man… if he is ready when stunned you get to also stun the Mark V for free. That’s pretty good.

Nathan Garrett… just like Ant Man. His Blindside effect makes the formation and protection of the Mark V a moot point, and lets you push through damage earlier… before the critical turns 6 and 7.

Those are some. Do they mean there is a wide open chance to counter the curve? No, not really. I skipped many of the pure stall cards like Puppet Master or Mimic and Rogue to copy him. I skipped Kang and Krona to move the opponent to their hidden area so you can attack direct. There are still wide open options against Sentinels based on characters, but if I were to look this list over…. X-Statics might have some real curve wrecking potential.

Next up let’s try to see what non-character cards can hurt the Curve.

Cards- Non-characters

So, other than characters, what other neat cards can really hurt a Sentinel curve? In the Mirror they are just as hampered by a Micro Sentinel as their opponent, and Search And Destroy can sure limit both. But what might break open this purple clam and expose its soft and vulnerable interior?

Fastball Special… those darned Mutants again. Direct Stunning makes Bastions pumping a non-issue. And with 2 of them that’s both Bastion and Magneto on the same turn. What can the curve run to tech against this? Yeah, NTZ will be going in I am sure, but it all becomes a matter of timing.

A Child Named Valeria…. If they are reinforced, your whole turn is null and void basically. If they are running a Common Enemy, then they stun out your Hound at the same time.

Lost City… ok, be it straight Brotherhood, the new Kang build… an army team-up… or Underworld and Brotherhood exploiting Centurious… this out pumps your Bastion for the attack. And this comes online way earlier than Bastion does. This can really hurt any opponent.

Bitter Rivals….. well, again… the consistency of Curve also breed predictability. And any card that has to name a character has a much higher likelihood of hitting when you play such a common knowledge build. Doom can lay a serious beat on a Mark V, or even Bastion and Magneto. And each of these means you need 3 more Bastion pumps to save that character on defense.

Cracking the Vault… now it hurts Kang or the Clone type decks more, but any Army deck can be hurt by this card. But if they just played those Reconstruction Programs, you can be reasonably sure to know what you will hit with this little gem.

Spider Tracer…. You need to do 2 things with this. First is get more than one by turn 6. And next is make sure to limit how many characters your opponent has in play. This card basically says they can no longer use Bastion to aid a character. Since they are easy to call, running a Daily Bugle will let you get another good use out of this card later in the game even.

Escape Artist….. what a great defensive card. It basically nullifies an entire attack. And nullifying an attack after Bastion pumps for the turn can swing things in your favor on 6.

Untouchable…. Sort of like Spider tracers, but it changes each turn. It can be played around, so it not a guarantee, but once the selections are made it allows you to plan your combat round more effectively than not knowing who can be pumped by Bastion.

Willpower… yeah, just the keyword itself. I mean, who can counter In The Hands Of Qward? Or any of the other game breaking effects of willpower? It is a have or have-not situation. If you have Willpower you can exhaust people out, KO them, steal them, recover them, etc… What once was rare is now common or uncommon it seems, for those with enough willpower to use it.

Death Of Superman… again, this puts a real hurt on the Army builds. It will hurt Kang pretty badly also. And if flipped after some Reconstruction Program tricks, you can put many of those retrieved cards right back where they came from.

Repulsor Ray…. No payment powers this turn? That means they have to plan Bastion up front, or respond to it. The reality is that Bastions effect is hugely powerful. But if you know how many pumps are going where, you can better plan around it. The surprise of it, the uncertainty, is a major component of it’s strength. So anything that forces their play actually helps you overcome it.

System Failure… yeah, overload is gone, but this has stepped up to make some of those tricks still possible. NTZ doesn’t really do as much in the mirror except stop the Reconstruction Programs. But System Failure in the Mirror is pretty effective. It also stops those killing blows with an insanely pumped up Roy Harper they always try to send in direct.

Well, again, there are more. But these are some of the cards that can give the Curves some problems. There are also some combos that can really impact them, like anything with Team Tactics and huge attack values. But those can hurt most decks, that is not Curve Sent specific. Anyone else have stuff to add? Let’s get some discussion going, and then maybe in a few days we go over what hurt the Titans or the Marvel Knights hidden builds.

Hmmm... guess it was only me then......

I saw your list and I was a little disappointed, or just blind, that I didn't see any X-Men. Rogue-Powerhouse, Archangel, and Polaris say bye-bye Bastion. Then swing into Nimrod to stun his big ass too.

The problem with some of the combo decks that revolve around cards like A Child Named Valeria and Cosmic Radiation is Null Time Zone. I don't know, the next Golden Age will be interesting.

DK

I saw a few problems with your list, the biggest being you didn't put Finishing Move on there. KO effects are the closest we get to 'on-curve hate.' If you get one of their guys stunned, and knock him off the board, you have a much bigger advantage than cards like Bitter Rivals.

No Boomerang?

KO effects don't hurt Curve that much is the reason it wasn't there. Reconstruction Program just makes them another pump for Bastion. And while I love the X-Men (I really do), no amount of Polaris and Archangel and Rogue can gurantee his Bastion wont pump big enough to bounce your attack. Plus, they do have room for System Failure, so it is no real hampering to them. Not to mention many other defensive cards that might find their way into Sentinels in the new Meta.

Boomerang i love. Ask anyone about my Syndicate fetish, they will let you know. But the reality it, while you can stun Bolivar, and then bounce the Hound... now it is in his had for yet another pump. You on the other hand have given up 3 resources worth of board advantage to take out his 2. and you have KO'd the drop he would likely have gotten rid of anyway. Doesn't hurt them much at all.

But this is what i was after... let's get a dialogue going on what does and doesn't hurt the curve.

Wow... that list is actually pretty weak. You've got something major against the Mark V, it seems. On turn 6, that's the LEAST of your worries. And you mention Supeman Blue, but ignore the greatest auto-stun character in the game, Dr. Light (6).

KO'ing Bastion is an AMAZING play. Combined with Null Time Zone, you can dramatically limit their pump options in the late game, which is huge.

Carol Danvers <> Warbird can cause them problems, especially in addition to Finishing Move (KO their three and bounce their four, assuming you have three characters, which is why Rick Jones is good). It gives you half a chance of completely clearing the Sentinels board on turn four, denying Nimrod the counter.

Why did curve decks not prevail in DCMA? One card stopped them from appearing, and that card is Chopping Block. You cannot curve with that much insane KO running around with no off-curve hate. KO is on curve hate, therefore if you Finishing Move Bastion you no longer have to deal with him.

Rouge, Polaris, and Archangel can easily take down Bastion. can bastion pump 18? I didn't think so either.

Actually, two Army characters, two RP's, and a dead Mark II or Hound in the KO'd Pile can do it. I usually use 20 as the benchmark for whether you'll take down Bastion or not.

War Wagons and Chopping Blocks will prove deadly if someone can find the right deck to abuse them properly. For example... War Wagon on a visible Slipstream in Anti-Knights, or CB on Tomar Tu in GLEE Rush/Control. Getting the early pick-offs puts an opponent in a bad place. In fact, if I wasn't worried about No Man and Betrayal getting a lot of play, I'd say that splashing Dr. Ub'x would be a decent general gameplan.

I've never seen Bastion go over 25. Let's say they have 3 RP's, and 4 Sents in their hand. Keep in mind this is already a LOT of dudes, most of the time they have one or two Recons. 4+3+3+3=13, 13+12=25.

EDIT: Nevermind, I think you misinterpreted my post. I meant to say can Bastion pump 18 MORE than 12, making him 30. Not just to 18, that's way too easy.

On turn 7, after an admittedly conservative turn 6, I've witnessed a CS deck pull out a total of 17 Bastion pumps. Yes, he'd drawn every RP and several robots. He won as a 27/27 Bastion and 18/18 Magneto stuffed a ton of END loss down the opponent's throat, and this was off-initiative too. Don't underestimate the CS power draw. lol

Okay, let me get this straight in my head. You are preposing that KOing a CS player highest drop is a bad play? Because of reconstruction program... right.

Now, let's say we're both playing basic curve deck. We're both playing texless cards that have identical statistics. You attack my four with your four, they both stun. I attack my three into your three, they both stun. I Finishing Move your Four with my Two. Going into next round (assuming no further attacks) you have a Five drop, a three drop, and a two drop. I, on the other hand, have a five drop, a four drop and a two drop, a superior position.