If you've been sequestering yourself to Vs. mailing lists and message boards, you probably haven't seen the craziness that's been UDE's new game, World of Warcraft. I, however, have been in the middle of a huge storm of product shortages, price hikes and fears about whether or not I'll have product available for this weekend's release event at the store. But thinking about how things have gone, I see there's a tremendous amount of excitement for the game and wonder to myself "What could Vs. do to generate this sort of buzz?"

Read on for what I came up with . . .

Well, the first thing UDE could do would be to start up a MMORPG for Marvel and DC and get over 7 million subscribers worldwide to become subscribers.

"Yeah, like that'll happen."

Well, it was the most obvious and most easily dismissable idea. But let's move on to something more in the realm of possibility. . . UDE could make Vs a less complex game that was easier to play. None of these pesky formations, ranged and flight, hidden area, etc. It's waayyy complicated for new players. Someone who says "Yeah, I like comics. I like games. Lemme see an X-Men deck and play a game or three" is going to be very disappointed when they lose game after game because they didn't reinforce on turn three to prevent breakthrough, or they forgot to play a recovery card and got board cleared, or they got jacked by the powerhouse that is Nahrees and couldn't use their Jean Grey, Phoenix Force (because that's what happens in the comics), or because a Kree Press deck just ran over the X-Men without breaking a sweat on turn six out of the blue.

"Newbies are so fun to beat up on. They're crunchy on the outside and squishy on the inside. . . kind of like a taco."

Taco? Wow, you're pretty messed up. Anyway, the problem with trying to get new folks into the game is it's horribly complex and takes a long time to master. If there were a way to make an accessible version of the game to get folks in, then graduate them up to the big time, that'd make the game so much more accessible to new players. And without new players, the game's will survive for a while, but won't ever be the breakaway hit it should be.

"But the complexity, tactics and strategy are all part of the appeal of the game. If we wanted a simpler game, we'd go play Solitaire. . . or Yugioh. . . or Magic."

I understand. Making the game more strategically insteresting is diametrically opposed to making the game more accessible. The easier you make a game for new players, the less interesting you make it for veterans. If I were the guys over at the Fallout Shelter, I'd start brainstorming a casual format with no formations, figure out combat bonuses for characters with flight and/or range (like flight guys have +1 ATK against charactes without flight and range guys have +1 DEF against characters without range), work out something to do about reinforcement (perhaps make characters adjacent to a non-stunned character with a shared team affiliation automatically reinforced) and work through how to deal with the corner cases (if something refers to front or support row, just ignore it, a character like Juggernaut or Dewoz can choose either adjacent character for their ability, etc). Then make this format the primary format used for sneak previews and/or hobby leagues so the game can focus a bit more on the casual player and gaining new players and not as much on the pro circuit players. But I'm not that smart and don't have someone else here to tell me how bad my ideas are and how to improve them.

"Your ideas suck!"

And how do I improve them?

"Have someone else do the heavy thinking. You weren't much of a brain person in the first place."

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I do believe that the guys at UDE have talked about this over and over and have likely come up with ideas that are much better than whatever I've thought about. I'm just looking at the cases of WoW I have and comparing them to the boxes of Vs. I have and thinking "If I weren't a player of the game, why would I choose to by Vs, something that may or may not move, instead of buying WoW, where the prices are going for upwards of three times distributor cost?"

"Well, you make money with the set's released, right? People come in and buy product at your store and play in Sneak Previews. That's gotta be good for you, right?"

Well, it's true that I do sell Vs. when a new set comes out, but as far as Sneak Previews go, the normal store owner doesn't make any money off that event. Unless your store is owned by a PTO, the store doesn't get any money from the event and, in the worst case, can lose money because other events on that day get canceled and the regulars don't come in and spend their dough on that. Perhaps Atlanta is a unique place, but the venue that has held the last several Sneak Previews simply isn't interested because people don't seem to stay and play Vs. there after the Sneak. They aren't interested in holding large events in store because the "advertising" they get doesn't turn into customers actually coming back in and spending money in their store.

WoW does a much better job of this by eliminating Sneak Previews and simply having Release events. With WoW, you have people coming in to buy cards directly from the store owner (which means the store owner generates sales and can actually pay their rent, utilities, etc). Events are geared towards friendly play and the participation prizes are generally the best prizes. Also, you know that really cool playmat you've been dying to get your hands on, but weren't randomly drawn in the sneak preview bonus round and your sealed pack wasn't good enough for you to place in the prizes? Well, WoW solves that problem as well by simply letting your store buy playmats and sell them to you. No dealing with eBay, no trading away your best cards to one of the lucky guys. . . just have your store order the playmat, give them money when it comes in and it's yours.

"But then the playmats aren't nearly as valuable! You're trying to destroy the game!"

You think people won't want a playmat just because they have to buy it instead of get it for free? I am very confident that is not the case. In fact, I bought one of my playmats and it's one of the best ones I have (Onslaught, for those keeping score at home).

"Well, UDE just made some sweeping changes to their Organized Play for next year. Do you seriously think they're going to make these overhauls as well just because you say so?"

Actually, no. I think they'll eventually do some of these for Vs, but they'll wait several months to a year at least so they can find out if the programs are helping with the casual game, or if it's just the license making people buy crazy amounts of product.

"Well, you got any other crazy ideas?"

Well, I could go on about making curve more viable, banning Dr. Light, being more consistent in the decision to ban vs. errata, and actually delivering on their promise to replace Antarctic Research Base but I've done that plenty in my podcasts as well as my other articles, so I won't repeat that here.

"Wow, you sound like you're really down on Vs. OP now that you've got a new crack to play."

I love Vs. and will be playing it and judging it years from now. But I also recognize when there's things that could be improved. I'm just hoping the short term success I've seen so far for WoW isn't a flash in the pan. I'm also hoping that Warcraft's a tremendously successful game in the long term and that it's success will help Vs. become a better game in the long run.

"Well, I'm taking the last word before you can. . . All you guys out there in Realmsland. . . what you think of these lunatic ravings? Do you think the ideas have merit? Do you think this guys off his rocker? Or do you have other ideas that you think will help Vs. become as successful as the World of Warcraft game? And do you think it's premature for this madman to declare a game a success three days after the street date of the game regardless of the crazy prices for product on eBay? Let us know. . . and with that, we'll see you in two weeks, hopefully with an interview (assuming Dylan can get off his bum and actually get something recorded)."

So is this post promoting VS. to players or WOW? It seems to be saying VS is too hard, go play WOW... Shouldn't it be in a WOW thread?

You're getting the wrong idea. This is really much more of a, "HEY, UDE! Casual players will ignore VS! Here's ways to fix that problem, some of which come from you!" type of article, where he wants feedback from the community both for UDE to see how the VS fanbase agrees/disagrees with him as well as for new ideas to be generated.


I do agree with you, Doc. I think I'll still prefer the WoW TCG, though.

(And I like the shout-out to Fallout, those guys and their writers are good people, especially that "Gabe Schmidt" guy they got writing "Profparm's Prophecies"....)

All I can say is whats already been said before, at least concerning Wow vs. VS. All of it has me peeved at both games but not enough to make me quit one or the other (or worse, both). It basically came down to the AMAZING OP promise that they are making for wowtcg. Peasant Magic ('lazy peon') a supported format? 100,000 $ 1st place event at worlds? The game just got competetive if thats your dig. Okay, Stuff for both sides of the wow tcg (VG players, and Card gamers) that can be EXCHANGED if you're not one or the other, for the 'side' you're on. EAs, playmats, computers to fit what YOU want, then some absurd stuff like cars/motorcycles ?! Hmm...VS players get EAs, a little cash maybe, in a cutthroat envirnment, playmat if you're lucky. No real reason for casual players to play, 'cept for crappy EAs that may or may not be there. 50ks you say? Last I heard a few 10ks were being dropped for that. So instead of a bunch of middle tournaments, You have 10ks with the level of a PC. Way to help the casual VS player out there, UDE. Store Championships? You'd have to have a store that supports VS for that, and those are few and far between, and then they haven't even realeased what those are, they could be pcqs w/out and cash prizes. We've seen how well those worked out in Europe.

I dunno what the solution is, but at the rate UDE seems to be supporting WOW, when the hell will they have time to support VS?

It seems like UDE has used VS as like a guinea pig. Honestly, WoW seems perfect. Like, it has everything you could really want in terms of OP it sounds like.

I am starting to think that VS is still breaking new ground. Vs is in a strange place. It is a highly comples game that attracts the best of the best (that can be debated) to compeate.

I think that VS should possibly try to become the supper 1337 place to play. Makre the game a goal, so that when you say "i'm a pro VS player" poeple give that low whistle and look of awed respect. Being a PRo VS player should be like being a pro poker player. You are the best, you rock.

Because the truth is, the only way we can get this game more accesable is to make it a different game. When trying to make casual formats you ahve to take out parts of the game that are hard, and I kinda don't like that. I love the complexity, I like that it's HARD.

BTW thanks for the nod to the show. We work very hard to get it out every week. It may have just come out again today......like it does every friday..........(cough....Falloutcards.com...cough)

In summation: What can be done to make Vs a more casual accessible game, without reducing the complexity?

Probably nothing in the short term, with the exception of bannings of multiple cards.

One of the biggest problems right now for Vs. is the reduction of Vs. to Legend of the Five Rings / Raw Deal status by a number of retailers. This may be blamed on the player-base (Do you buy from your FLGS or online?) or on UDE. Players not buying from local stores only contributes to making the game less and less viable at a local or regional level. UDE has, of late, made a bit of a power-creep statement. Though, IMHO, the creep still doesn't beat out the power level of the Origins sets.

A problem I've seen that hasn't been addressed yet is the idea of team viability. There is a MAJOR problem with Vs in that some teams are not viable on any level, not even casual play. If you want to draw people into a game based on a licensed property, you better make it so that the license has some value. We've had a number of major motion pictures that have drawn millions in box office revenue based around .... yeah, Spider-man, Superman, Batman and the X-Men. These teams are among the worst in Vs. Only fanboys play these, myself included, because you will lose to so much else. That includes seemingly random teamings of mismatched properties.

Look, there's nothing wrong with the idea of opening the game up for fresh thinkers but when you exclude the player base you limit the involvement to the "elite". As an analogy look at elections, every election including this one is for the fate of the country/world/universe you know. Yet people consistently find better things to do (drink / play Vs. / have sex / drink). Leaving only those who "really" want to be involved voting. Once things take that dip it's hard to get peoples attention again. Especially when something like WoW looms on the horizon, like tomorrow morning.

I just don't like WoW

It's been force fed to me since it has shown up, I don't like the game, just not my cup of tea, granted, millions of people can't be wrong, but if thye like it good for them, it's just not for me, and I know I'm probably straying off topic, but I'm getting a little tired of coming to VSrealms and seeing stuff about WoW. I know it's hyped up and it's big and it's got more people playing it who haven't seen the sun since it came out, but I mean for crying out loud. The way it looks it seems like that UDE is expecting this to be the future, and you know what? Fine, great support your new game, but for God's sake you have an excellent game right now that needs it's prize support, needs it's sets, because of WoW the prize support HAS suffered, VS product has been pushed back, and I'm sorry but squash that, there ARE some people who don't give a damn about World of Warcraft and are dedicated VS players who you are throwing under the bus because you're promoting a card game that's based off a computer game played by people who do that PLAY IT ON THE COMPUTER...I don't like WoW, I tried it, hated it, stuck to Star Wars Galaxies in terms of MMORPG play, but when it comes to card games I play VS, I'll stick with VS, and I am tired of hearing about how WoW is so good that the Vs community can squat off. I don't mean any offense to anyone, if you liek WoW great, I have nothing AGAINST wow per say, but when I wanna see something about VS and everytime I come onto vsrealms, I keep seeing WoW being snuck into the conversation, it gets old. Sorry, been a bad day, just venting a bit.

Seconded, and with 10+ characters as well.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my initial writing (and it's also possible I've been focusing too much on WoW recently because, as a retailer, I've been getting several calls a day asking about the release event as well as wondering if I have any product for sale. . . something I think I may have had once for Vs in the several months I've been a retailer). . .

WoW has done some things that people are very excited about. It seems very accessible to casual players in a way that Vs. isn't. Why is that? What can be done to make Vs. more accessible to casual players?

Also, I really agree with Lasok's comment about hugely popular teams not performing well in the game. I mean, it's not like THE MOST POPULAR TEAM IN ALL OF COMICS DOESN'T HAVE A DECENT FRIGGIN' TUTOR IN THE SET THAT CAME OUT THAT WAS NAMED AFTER THE BLOODY TEAM! Yeah, I said it before, but I'll say it again. People like to play teams that a) give them a chance to win and b) are really cool. I don't know what the thinking is behind not making X-Men a Tier 1 team (or Gotham Knights, or Spider-Man, or Superman. . . ) but hopefully UDE will correct what I believe is a mistake and actually make the teams with iconic, recognizable characters playable at the premiere level. Seriously, who would you like to play. . . Cyclops or Dr. Light? Arisia or Storm? Dr. Minerva or Jean Grey? Alfred or Spider-Man? Booster Gold or Superman? . . . ok, bad example, everyone loves the Giffen run on Justice League, so that last one may not be fair, but you get the idea. I'm hopeful that R&D will use World's Finest and Marvel Team-Up to make Spider-Man, Gotham Knights and Team Superman into serious, competitive teams. That, in and of itself, would help casual players since they can now play characters they like instead of characters that are simply powerful.

But that's my opinion (and one more reason why I don't apply for positions at UDE because I know they'd pull out my posts here during the interview and say "So, what did you actually mean when you said R&D was filled with poo flinging dingos who couldn't find their posterior without a map and a sherpa?" :-)

If UDE can't make this game popular and fix the problems with the big names teams with Worlds Finest and Marvel Team-Up, it'll be a clear signal that people should start playing WoW, which will have it's first expansion set coming out at about the same time as Marvel Team-Up.

I get the point that was trying to be made, just the fact that I'm getting tired of hearing about WoW, I know it's a big thing. At the store I work at we've been getting the same requests and questions and such. It just bothers me because the going ons in WoW don't concern the avid VS players, I was simply voicing my opinion, I in no way meant to take any shots, I simply get tired of hearing about WoW from all these die hard players trying to force me into it. And when I come here and see WoW already being compared to VS system I just wanna scream. I know Wow will be a hit and will be good for the gaming community as a whole, but as a VS player, I just want to know what's going on in the world of VS, not about World of Warcraft, not about how VS can improve so it can be like World of Warcraft, but how about how can VS become the best overall cardgame? Where does VS itself need to be fixed for the players to still love the game?I dunno, like I said I just get force fed World of Warcraft from most of my friends who get engulfed in the game, and when it seems like it happens on VS realms (just my perspective I can be wrong) I just get tired of hearing about it. Again I mean no offense to those of you who like WoW, are interested in WoW, or anything of that sort, but I just think Vs forums should be about VS, not comparing it to other games, VS is a good game but it does have it's flaws, and I agree whole heartidly with Doc when he says teams like Superman, Spider Friends, Gotham Knights, Xmen, they ALL need to be tier 1, most new players to the VS game want to play THOSE teams because that's what they like. So when they start playing with thier brand new X men deck and it gets smashed around by Dr. Light and guys they may not know of, they may just want to give up. Thinking it's stupid the fact that the X men can't beat a team they've never heard of. At my store I see it all the time, some of these players who are attracted to the game because they read comics don't want to play guys they don't know anything about, they want to play what they like, if they're an X Men fan, then 90% of the time they'll want to play an X Men team, but if it keeps losing, they won't want to play at all anymore, hopefully with Marvel Team Up and World's Finest we will see our favorite teams vamped up. These are the kind of things to discuss, not how VS can become popular like WoW, because it's comparing apples to oranges, and again I'm not taking shots, and I mean no disrespect, but in the end that's what it is. You can't look at another game and ask yourself "How can we make it like that?" But there's nothing wrong with asking "How can we make this game better than anything being played out there? How can we continue to entertain our customers? Keep them excited when they play? Make them hyped about an upcoming set release?" Again these are just my opinions, and hell...I could be wrong.

Dear god shadman, can you please make a paragraph?

Thats the problem, NOTHING is happening in VS right now. Heralds has been released and the big G isnt the next big thing, Kree are. Unless you are a 'pro' the only thing you are working on is the next PC, and then, you keep most VS talkings to yourself and/or your team. So who else is there to turn to? Surely not the other VS sites? Metagame is just a joke. I only go there to check standings and 'major announcements'. VS universe? To read another incoherent article? About the only place left is Starcity and man, the only articles worth reading there are finished for the moment, and I knew half of what they were talking about already (refering to the 'draft bible', and yeah kree is ########).

You're right you should ignore wow if you don't care, but I'm sure you/we aren't the only one(s) feeling that way. I'm sure the magic community is in a bit of a tiff, since they promised (again) such AMAZING op and $ for this game, plus having a niche that MTG cant reach? Or even Yugioh? I'm pretty sure I can go to several other sites and find similar complaints.

I don't remember who said it before, but I have the feeling that VS is gonna be brushed aside now. In the beginning they promised no money prizes for Wow, now they are offering the biggest 1st prize to magic.

As long as VS is slow and complex (one game matches and relatively high learning curve: Strike one) , and as long as the 'pros' huddle in their groups and don't share (too much emphasis on the pro circuit: Strike two), as long as UDE keeps messing up with prize support and practically ignore their now few dedicated VS fans, (See: Europe and Hobby league) Vs will die.

I think I saw it in someones sig, but right now its feeling awfully true:

VS is Dead! Long live the King!