The difference is that I don't care about whether the game is on its way out or on its way up, I just know that its at a low point.

All I want is a solution.

First of all, the problem must be properly identified. One of the big problems I'm seeing is that there is a lack of UDE support that is visible to us. It's not that it's not there, but we're not actually being informed on it as much as the information-hungry of us out here want to ####ing hear it.

Second, I've heard a lot of people saying that a casual fanbase will move to WoW instead of VS because its a simpler game. While the pros don't seem to be sticking to that game (due to issues with regards to who will win being known by turn 2), it is significantly less complex than VS, earning it quite a bright light for those casual players who don't want to burst a blood vessel thinking about the game all the time. The complexity issue is actually something I've always felt was big to VS. I don't have a problem with it, but a lot of people do.

Which brings the question of the solution.

If you were UDE, what would you be doing right now? Assuming, obviously, that you can not change the rules, would you do anything differently to try and improve the state of the game (to either prevent the decline or bring about the inclice faster)?

If you actually have a solution, make sure that it incorporates both competitive and casual players. Solutions like, "I think competitive players are too mean so rares shouldn't be allowed" are stupid and will be mocked as such. Similarly, anything along the lines of "who carez about casual noobs and people who havent realized that WoW is over by turn 2 lol dumasses" is also stupid and demanding of mockery.

Also, are there any glaring problems that I'm missing, that may be leading to this decrease (or possibly just the bottom of the ridge) that people seem to be complaining about?

P.S. If you happen to be one of the people who think that VS is still at the height of its lifetime, hey, feel free to explain to us why you think that. I think these problems could still be addressed whether VS is doing good or bad, but its much, much more important if VS is doing bad.

1. Marvel Team-up
2. World's Finest

NUFF SAID!

I'd certainly try to advertise the game more, because it's important to get the name out there. Trying to make some teams or sets a bit easier to get into, lowering the learning curve for entry, would synch well with that effort, allowing for a Wii-like ability to penetrate groups outside of the hardcore base. On the OP scene, I'd try to diversify offerings, and that's not just a matter of formats. Back before the Bay Area got its current PTO, there was a dead period. During that time, I'd developed a plan for a big regional tournament series that would tie in with the sets that were out and some comic book events. I think being able to run these sort of 'miniseries' events would help to generate interest in an area, combining the certainty of games one gets from a hobby league, while getting to use the limited-time nature to prevent apathy that can occur when people assume an ongoing event will always be there.

You forgot Hellboy. ;)

But what exactly about these sets is so guaranteed to be uplifting? Look at the star players for Marvel Team-Up. Spider-Man isn't exactly a top tier team, and god knows we all hate Sinister Syndicate. Well, any decent person, that is. ;) But Marvel Knights were best not because of their actual card pool but solely because of Midnight Sons. And Underworld was never the hottest thing ever (LARPers aside).

And World's Finest? They're ressurrecting Superman, Gotham Knight, Arkham Inmates, and Revenge Squad. Which is good, because all of these have seen great showings. Oh, wait.... Don't get me wrong, GK has shown up in plenty of team-up decks because of the occasional good card it contains, and there was that Superman clone deck that wrecked at one tournament, that wasn't too bad. But, namely, these teams need a total makeover. I'm curious if, outside of the Arkham Inmates "KO and Exhaust" theme, they'll even be able to use the older team themes to good effect.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but the upside to these sets is somewhat lost on me. If a set features a popular team, like MXM, it needs to make sure and make that team both good and compatitible with older versions of that team, unlike MXM. I don't think it is automatically considered as a good thing because of the teams included. After all, I had little interest in Squadron Supreme or Future Foes, but, after seeing their respective "No-Hand" themes, I like both of them.

I'm not sure what you mean by this...customer service type support, or something else?



Assuming you just mean "UDE Involvement...."

The Hobby League has problems. UDE should fully support a Hobby League. They should hire and train whomever they need to to ensure that Hobby League kits arrive at stores and that they are used properly.

This is much easier to speculate about. Business stuff gets tricky because of complications we don't know about, but complexity can be fixed with card design.

VS needs to become more like Magic.

1) A core set.
MARVEL: Spider-Friends, Avengers, X-men
DC: Gotham, Superman, JLA

Magic is better than VS in that it has 5 colors, and there are a million ways to make those 5 colors work. Yes, red is fast and hard and white is damage prevention, but there are a million deck combinations that can be made with a limited color base, and an infinite number that can be produced.

VS is limited because they will continue to make new teams. New teams are a good thing (a very good thing), but if there were a core set of the popular teams, casual players would be attacted to it. Dual affiliation should also be used more, allowing the Core Teams to be the focus, but you could still build an "X-force" deck, by taking only dual affiliated X-men/X-force members. (This is something I wanted to see with Marvel Knights long before dual affiliation existed)


2) Better plot twists.

Face it, VS isn't always complex. Sometimes it's just boring. Make some interesting plot twists with Wrath of God or Pestilence effects. Stop putting those effects on characters. Stop making plot twists that are nothing but +X ATK/+X DEF.

3) Powerful, powerful, POWERFUL versions of popular characters.

VS always took pride in the fact that Superman wouldn't be unbeatable and that he would also see smaller playable versions. Guess what? That didn't work.

Casual players want to WIN with these names. Superman should have a version that shows up and just wins. The opponent should realize when Superman, Gonna Getchya hits the field, they better have a way to kill it IMMEDIATELY or lose.

Of course, that Superman shouldn't be a 2 drop, but the point remains. The big names are the guys players should fear. Maybe Arsenal wins you games, but there should be outright terror when your opponent recruits Batman.




The last suggestion should appeal to Pros (who don't particularly care about who they're using to win) and Casuals who like comics (who likely don't care about the Legion of Supers). The only people who might not like that are the hardcore comic fanboys, but you can't please everyone.

I believe that's what a refeature really is.

I don't think the strategy needs to be compatible. Brotherhood Reservist does alright without relying on Big Brotherhood Lost City stuff; and even still, old cards will find their way in.

If the teams are playable, and they're mainstream/popular characters, it's not exactly a negative for the game. I really don't see the relevance of the "backwards synergy compatability" arguement.

Whenever I quote BackAgain, or he quotes me, we waste way too much time with a back and forth that tend to get nowhere. So, I will give only simple, emotional reactions rather than attempt to create an actual, logical debate.

Boo.



BOO!!!



Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Boo!



Yay!





Yay!





Boo!



:cheeky:

I'm not sure I completely agree with this idea. I believe part of the "VS Charm" is that it introduces me to characters and storylines i've never heard of before, and makes them playable! If Superman/Batman/SpiderMan/Wolverine were all just damn wrecking balls, everyone would just build uniform decks where the win condition is: Stall to turn 9, drop Supes, profit.

THAT is boring. I would get tired of this quickly. I like seeing a large variety of characters and a large variety of win conditions. If the mainstream, recognized characters were, as you say, POWERFUL characters, then that would probably be all you would see outside of PCQ.

I don't know, maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but I just don't know if I buy this idea. The rest I agree with though! :classic:

I agree here. UDE needs to start investing more time in hobby league to beef up the player base


I don't agree with this. magic and all things associated to magic should be left to itself. core sets would only drive the prices of the original cards down and make modern tournaments a pain in the ###.
anti life equation? system failure? press the attack? I think they have that covered. I think they need less complicated interaction, definately not MORE complicated PTs.

can't disagree with that

they do have a chance to redeem themselves in worlds finest and marvel team up. so I don'tthink it's CURRENTLY a problem.

very true.

You're telling me that people actually PLAY this card?! Effectively?! All it does is give me a headache and sit in a rares binder, glaring at me with its brain-melting eyes!

it's definately a fun complicated card. playable? not so much.

one suggestion I do have is to hold one of those create-a-card things where the fans make a card, except one for every set. that would be teh awesome!

That's not exactly what I'm saying...

Supes doesn't need to be a 9 drop to be ridiculously powerful. Maybe he should be, but Spider-Man could be a powerful 4 drop, Wolverine a 5, Batman could be a powerful 2 drop! They need to be game changers though. A "deal with me or DIE" card.

I don't mean, "When you recruit Superman, you win the game." I mean cards that immediately draw the eye of players to say, "Damn, that's a powerful card."

And maybe you love winning with unknowns (and you certainly SHOULD be able to), but the majority of casual players won't want that. And we're talking about how to attract MORE players, not why a few are already hooked.

But is the reverse, NEVER seeing mainstream recognized characters, helping the game or hurting it?

I really can't believe it's helping.

1) I would've liked to see Mobilize printed at Uncommon. Who do we upset at this point making staple tutors non-rare? It'll still reach the $10-15 mark for the secondary market, but that's still more reasonable than $25-30

2) DON'T simplify the game. Carve out a niche as being the most challenging and most rewarding TCG on the face of the earth. Nobody would be happy if the game was significantly "dumbed down"

3) Get more creative with the big names. The reason why characters like Superman and Batman are under-powered is because they're designed with abilities that are too straightforward. The best characters in the game--Arsenal, Dr. Light, Dr. Doom, Poison Ivy, etc--all have abilities that are tricky and take skill to utilize, they're not just +X ATK/+X DEF combat effects. Consider the 7-drop Batman and Spider-Man--they both took some resource management skill to use effectively, so they saw some tournament play.

More as I think about it.

1) Driving the price of original cards down HURTS the game? How much can you sell original cards for anyway? Several threads have shown that people AREN'T getting a return on their investment. Core sets make the game accessable for new players, which is what we need to attract.

And forget Modern tournaments or whatever for now, I think the whole tournament structure needs an overhaul, too.

Not complicated plot twists, POWERFUL and ORIGINAL. Wrath of God is extremely simple. I'm not saying make that card, but you can make simple AND powerful AND original cards. Simply stop making Plot Twists that are boring and unoriginal.


I'd argue the opposite. It's CURRENTLY a problem, though UDE may be fixing it with those sets.

I see what you're saying, and I don't really have an answer except: How many times can they recreate Batman/Superman for future sets, attracting the casual crowd, before they're just out of ideas?

I agree with you to a point, as I think Superman has been treated pretty unfairly by the VS System, but I just fear the game becoming too saturated with these characters, and the characters themselves just becoming too old.

How many different versions of this card could there be? While Superman is an awesome character, what all could there be? Earth 2? Reborn? Red? Blue? Kingdom Come?

I think I'm rambling at this point, hopefully my point is somewhat clear.