Alright.

I've heard you guys bash WoW.

But in all honesty... a good game is a combination of a playable, easy to learn engine and an excellent IP.

If the spandex we all know were to migrate over to UDE's other game engine... would it really be all that bad?

1. Focus on a single hero or villain... good.
2. Supports teams through the use of Allies... good.
3. Has equipment so you can use Cap's Shield, Thor's Hammer, Batman's Utility Belt or Green Lantern's Power Ring... good.
4. Can go back to best of 3 match system... good.
5. Has more luck-based aspects so the field is more evened out... maybe good?
6. Simpler mechanics can bring in more players, even younger ones... good (but bad for those of us who like the intense strategic aspect of our current engine).
7. Sideboard... many people think that's good, I don't really.

Let's try to put our zealous faithfulness aside for a bit and examine this... would it really be that terrible if VS used the WoW engine?

I know many of the VS players have moved to WoW and I don't seem to hear too many complaints from them.

Thoughts?

If they would of done it like that from the begining I think VS would be even more popular than it is now

But to change now would be a mistake that would chase away alot of loyal players

so what that would be not that many equipments per set unless spiderman is goign to start running around with Guns.........maybe ifhe was mid 90s spiderman drawn by a liefield clone.

So how woudl that work exaclty? I control Spiderman and my allies are his amazing friends like nova, iceman, torch, and black cat?

At that point though how would i play with the Titans? avengers or Justice league? Sure i could be superman but what if i want to be the Thunderbolts?

Well... this is a What If? thread. Not my typical "change the game, save the game" one.

The system would obviously prevent many teams from being used but that's the whole point, to focus on the main teams and characters.

Avengers would use Cap and Justice League would use one of the Trinity (so you could be Supes, Bats or the Amazon).

See I think thats one of the great parts of VS is that you can be so many differnt teams and characters i think the idea of having decks based on characters like the old school Doom decks will be cool. But at the same time people can play any of the 30 or so teams that are in VS. So if they do this right we will have the best of both worlds what each group of people want

so would that work like RAW deal and its stable cards
example- you control Degeneration X, so you can use cards from either Shawn Michaels, HHH, road dog, billy gun,and X-crap in your deck?

because im guessing his this idea that instead of saying can only be used by a warlock, cards would state only useable by Cable for instance.
and if you had the X-force avatar card out you could use CAble cards in your Xforce deck?

I don't have to be zealot or faithful to tell you that idea would suck. The WOW engine has just as many drawbacks as this engine. I know WOW exists, if I wanted to play that engine I would go play it.
Congratulations? Perhaps they need a new playtesting partner...

There was a period over the past few weeks where I thought you were honestly just trying to spur some conversation, but after all these different threads on this subject, this just feels like a big ole' dead horse that you can't quit beating.

1. The Magi-Nation focus on a single magi/hero kind of thing (well, 3 in Magi-nation, but 1 at a time for multilpe turns). Meh, it's okay. I think the team aspect is much better and leads to deeper strategy.

2. Errr, all games really have this, whether it's allies based off color/affiliation/type/team.

3. Most games have equips.

4. Best of 3 is debatable. Depends on the overall balance of the game. A game that has great balance throughout doesn't need sideboards. A game that has decks that are very powerful but easy to disrupt with normally not played cards needs sidedecks. There is a lot of strategy and educated meta-guessing with sidedecks. But in VS I wouldn't like it. It'd kill a lot of decks.

5. Luck factor. If I wanted luck factor I can play more Yugioh. If I want a huge luck factor I can play MTG. With VS, the skill factor is bigger than in any other TCG I spent any amount of time with. I've heard Star Wars & the Vampire game (exact name???) players may say those are even tougher, but I never got to play them.

6. If I wanted simpler mechanics I could play Yugioh or Munchkin.

7. Might as well combine this with number 4.

I've put this more eloquently before, but in a nutshell the issue I see with WoW is it doesn't have a niche other than it's great license. It doesn't have the quick goofy fun factor of Munchkin. It doesn't have the deep strategy level of VS or MTG. It doesn't have the quick & explosiveness factor of Yugioh (or to a lesser extent MTG.) It doesn't have the "the game is the license" of Y or MTG. In these regards, WoW is kind of has a little of most factors, but excels at none (though I thought the art was very good.)

What does WoW have? An extremely hot license and a great contract between UDE & Blizzard where Blizz develops code just for the game to be given as promos.

So what if VS used the WoW engine? Well, I'd have a lot more $$$ in my pocket than I do today! 'Cause I wouldn't be here.

Would you rather I post threads about punk rock or what kind of card I would be?

I think it's a valid thread considering how popular the WoW game is... and not just from people who actually like the IP, but from MtG and VS players.

Every regionals I've run since WoW was released has been around 70 players or more... and I'm pretty sure not everyone at these events are WoW diehards. Our last Sneak was 160+ players... VS had never seen numbers like that.

Is it too much of a stretch to imagine if VS would be more successful had used that engine back in '04?

Beating the horse would be asking UDE to change VS to use the WoW engine. That's not what this thread is about... I'm more just wondering if people would have still played VS if it had used the WoW engine instead.

I'm pretty sure they would... and I'm pretty sure if UDE said starting in 2008, VS will move to the WoW system... people would still play it. I would... because as much as I think that the VS engine is the best one out there (and it really is)... I would be happy as long as people play more spandex than orcs and blood elves.

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Thanks you Erick your threads do spur conversation if nothing else I hate threads about punk rock and what kind of card i would be

WoW is "so popular" because it's new. When the new car smell wears off and the kids move onto the next hot thing we will still be here.

We could "what if" this thing into the ground everyday. How about we quit postulating the benefits of completely scrapping the game and start thinking about World's Finest previews?

Let me just say this Erick, it's not the engine it's the amazingly popular video game that I just don't understand. That's what makes WOW so big. There are people playing WOW who don't even really play TCG's The current VS engine is fine. I started playing WOW when it first came out, but I don't play the video game so I have no real connection to the tcg so I quickly lost interest. That's why I don't play WOW. Anyway it's not the engine it's the video game.

When VS was new... it was not this popular. In fact, it never has been.
Sure. Then ignore this thread and PM TBS... he just might spoil something by accident.

Again... I doubt UDE will ever reboot VS and that's not what this thread is about. I find it interesting that many people are against change and get irritated when people suggest that VS would do better if it had a different engine or that VS would suck if it used the WoW engine.

What I'm getting at is that the WoW engine isn't that bad if you put it in the context of comic properties and in reality, most of you would probably be playing it right now whether they started with it in '04 or changed to it last week. This is just a discussion about alternate realities and how it might be... in the whole genre of the "What If?!?" comic book.

For example, I'll use Batman:

So in the vein of this original 7-drop from DOR, his strengths are counter maneuvers, equipment and support people. His Allies would be GCPD, Gordon, Oracle, Nightwing, Robin, Alfred, Bullock, Huntress, Azrael, Spoiler, Catwoman etc. His equips would be Utility Belt, Batarang and probably Kevlar-enforced Batcape. His stats would increase as you control more Allies so the key to him winning is to get out as many support people as possible. To beat him, you need to take down his Allies. Oracle could provide information (such as looking at your players hand or card draw). Robin and Nightwing would be combat support (as would Gordon, Bullock and the GCPD). Although Batman tends to think he doesn't need anybody... the truth his he wouldn't be able to win without the people around him.

And yes... I hope there is better Batman in World's Finest than the one we've seen already. Why can Spider-Man just pay ATK/DEF to get an effect so he can still fight but Batman has to activate in order to use his taking him out of combat... it just doesn't make sense.

The WoW engine was designed as a means of accurately portraying the mechanics of the online game; I personally think that it is ill-suited to the flavor of Vs.

I have seen plenty of complaints about how aspects of the game like formation makes games more complicated in threads like this, and I have to disagree with them. While the addition of tactics on top of normal strategy might add an extra layer of decisions to navigate, the jarring complexity I have witnessed in the game is present mainly when formation, and combat itself, is made less relevant.

I think a distinction has to be made between modern Vs and Vs during the game's first year. The best example of this change is the Hellfire Club team; any Hellfire deck creates one of the most thematic gameplay experiences I have ever encountered, and I see it as one of the grand successes of Vs design. Additionally, the team to me represents an example of complexity adding to, rather than detracting from, the flavor and excitement of play, as well as evidence that savvy design transcends game engines. The best engine isn't the one that is the most familiar (I.E. similar to land-mana-spell resource system), but rather the one that best empowers the people designing the cards.