The rules are changing way to much. These flying rules are getting annoying, under the NAAT heavy hitters got screwed and now tie up figures are getting screwed.because a flying character can still make a ranged combat attack (against a different figure) if based by a grounded figure.Seriously why the change here, just because they screwed up by making the NAAT rule, doesn't mean they have to try to give fliers back their lost power by making tie up figures far less effective. I know i'm probaly going to get ambushed for writing this but heroclix was a great game , that most of the characters had a unique strategy around now it seems like everyone is going to have the same strategy because why get a grounded rangecombat piece when you can get a flying one for a similar price.and i don'tcare what anyone says, i hate the NAAT rule and i know at least 12 people that go to tournements reguraly that hate the NAAT rule to (just recently we voted not to play by that rule)i really want someone to defend that ruling cause i really do want to be able to play with it, and maybe even like it, but i still can't force myself to even play under that ruling, it just makes no logical sense.
now go ahead and take cheap shots at me,kind of like the NAAT ruling (if i'm a heavy hitter)rememeber i'm not trying to get anyone mad just stating an opinion and seeing if you disagree of agree, i respect all of you guys please don't take this personally.

Yeah...Heroclix is dying. Tell you what...I'll give you my address, and you can send me all of your 'Clix. That way, you can have some closure and move on with your life.

How does that sound?

*shrug* I've had no problem with the ruling. Heck, I just took first place at a tourney with a team that had one flyer, no Outwit, and no TK (Okay, had four Perplexers, but still). And I was playing against teams that included Nightcrawler, Jean Grey, and Johnny Alpha.

The sky is falling the sky is falling....oh wait it's just snow.

Yeah,
1. They thought reading would die since movies came out.
2. So would going to movies since VHS has come out,
3. They play field hockey in Texas, a football state.
4. Video didn't kill the Radio Star
5. The Twist didn't kill Ballroom dancing
6. Playing street football instead after football video games.

No matter what happens, the people that love doing it will always do it. They still sell Checkers at toys R Us!

While I think that its possible (although not definate) that Heroclix has possibly hit its peak, I think saying dying is going too far.

Heroclix will have a problem coming up in the next say, year, year and a half in that its running out of characters. Unlike in Mageknight or Sportclix or the rest of their line, there's only a finite amount of characters in which to deal with. There's maybe two Marvel sets and three DC sets before they're down to an almost all re-releases or Power Pack.

But given that that's possibly years away, I think saying dying is a tad premature.

Hate to tell you in my area Hero Klix is flourishing. I helped start up another venue with tournaments. More people are playing at tournaments becuase of NAAT. There's far more people that like NAAT then dislike it. I have yet to find anyone in my area that has told me they dont like the new rules. Everyone always says its what Hero Klix needed. It makes perfect sense for a Strategy Game.

If I actually found a place that didnt go by the new rule. I would defiantly not play there.

As you bring this up all over again. You will again see most people like NAAT. Most people play NAAT. Of course this is all opinion. Of course some people will disagree with it. Doesnt make me or them right or wrong. Its an opinion.

Dude, before NAAT people had the same strategies, remember how popular rookie vulture was?
I think i've proved my point.

-Sean-

X-Man3000 wrote:
>>The rules are changing way to much.>>

Rules change in all games all the time. Especially complicated ones that have continually expanding rules sets. It is just life in the big city.

>>These flying rules are getting annoying, under the NAAT heavy hitters got screwed and now tie up figures are getting screwed.because a flying character can still make a ranged combat attack (against a different figure) if based by a grounded figure.>>

Yup.

>>Seriously why the change here, just because they screwed up by making the NAAT rule, doesn't mean they have to try to give fliers back their lost power by making tie up figures far less effective.>>

Why not? FCCF made big bruiser figures overall less effective (as most big bruiser figures both fly and range strike) than was probably necessary. The new flier ruling gives them some important pep back--you will no longer find the Silver Surfer, Thor, or Iron Man, you spent over half your total points on being completely neutralized by a 7 point Moloid. Which is a good thing, as it makes the big, flying bruiser figures, that are already very vulnerabile to Outwit and can't be carried out of a dnagerous situation, more playable.

>>I know i'm probaly going to get ambushed for writing this but heroclix was a great game>>

Still is. Probably more so now, that the rules are better designed and implimented.

>> , that most of the characters had a unique strategy around now it seems like everyone is going to have the same strategy because why get a grounded rangecombat piece when you can get a flying one for a similar price.>>

'Cause you can't. Flying costs something. For the same cost, a flying figure will be worse than a similar non flying figure in some way. If that difference is important, you take the non flier. And the non flier can still be carried, which is still very important.

Big, expensive, flying bruisers (i.e. most figures over 120 points) are now more playable. Cheap to mid ranged fliers, generally speaking, certainly get a small bonus, but you probably weren't buying them for their combat abilities anyway. The small number of cheap, effective flying range strikers (V Storm, umm, uhh, V Ice Man, and, uhh, I can't really think of any more in Marvel) certainly get a boost, but they have significant disadvantages compared to grounded fighters (V Storm is incredibly fragile, and you are still probably better off with V Bullseye for fewer points, in terms of combat value).

>>and i don'tcare what anyone says, i hate the NAAT rule and i know at least 12 people that go to tournements reguraly that hate the NAAT rule to (just recently we voted not to play by that rule)i really want someone to defend that ruling cause i really do want to be able to play with it, and maybe even like it, but i still can't force myself to even play under that ruling, it just makes no logical sense.>>

The NAAT rules were explained, at length, in the 2 or 3 previous posts you made on the subject. Did you read the responses?

>>now go ahead and take cheap shots at me,kind of like the NAAT ruling (if i'm a heavy hitter)rememeber i'm not trying to get anyone mad just stating an opinion and seeing if you disagree of agree, i respect all of you guys please don't take this personally.>>

Umm, ok? No one is likely going to take any cheap shots. Just explain things. On the other hand, it would be useful for the overall flow of discussion if, when you started a thread like this, you responded to people who post on the thread, rather than just posting a short diatribe and vanishing, only to come back and start a similar thread a couple days later and do the same thing all over again. Back and forth discussion is what leads to interesting conversation. Which is why we are here :-)

-Peter

Heroclix is doing rather well here too... granted, I'm about 45 min from WK HQ in Bellevue, so there's a good amount of support here, but still.

To address your actual concerns....

Locally, I noticed a large drop in players right after the whole Indy rules bruhaha...

And to be honest, everytime a new ruling is introduced, some players either drop or start going to a tourney that ignores those rules....

BUT! The game has achieved enough momentum that the new players are coming just fast enough to fill that void.

The NAAT and FCCF rules were made to address overly successful strategies. Other strategies were improved slightly, and some powers were tweaked or nerfed. Constant re-alignments in the rules are happening as rules as given a chance to reveal their intricisies.

Since NAAT/FCCF in particular, there has been a huge increase in team variety. Before the change, I was using Non-taxi teams, and figures with a high level of combat mobility(Charge, running shot, hss...) but most people were just relying on the old taxi, shoot, retreat, heal firelord game. Since this change, stealth teams, tie down teams, swarms...they all see play(and a lot of other types, mostly just mentioning styles that were ineffective until those changes)

I do love this game, and from a Judge perspective, my turn outs are better for every thing but Indy. Now I just need the Hellboy movie to come out, so people will feel the Indy Love!

Zack

MAn I have sooooooooo many players they are coming out of my $%$!!!!!!

Heck, for some characters the range thing is huge.

Look at Deathbird. Now she can use Running Shot to base a stealth target (such as Black Panther) while firing at another target, then next turn land a close-combat attack on the adjacent Stealther.

obviously the game is dying!
after less than 2 years on the market (or is that slightly more?) the clix system is being immitated, bought out by a big buisness style company set record sales voted best game....
2 years and its dead, yeah thats it...
Cause Nightcrawler sales haven't just shot up to the near 100$ mark, and Silver Surfers aren't by any means selling for $50+...

My sarcasm aside what is it with you doom, and gloom types?
read to many "watchtowers"????

yeah yeah, gods gonna get me and my evil heroclix collection ;gotcha, now go away....

oh, but X-Man3000, I am sorry that NAAT has ruined the game for you...
You should just play by the old rules if it makes you happy.
I for one am extremely happy with the new rules...

...just as long as you, along w/ people like you, admit to killin' it. i thought i would grow out of this game after a couple months. now its been a couple eight months and i'm lovin' this game even more.