Ok. So I've seen like, 3 threads get derailed and de facto killed by falling sky posts. For the purposes of keeping everything in order, I ask those unhappy with the Casual/Blogcentric direction that Vs is going:

What's the problem?

Players are being empowered, and listened to. UDE is listening to us as a group. HL, MW, and a bunch of other acronyms are still going strong(If the new Fate isn't awesome to you I don't understand). Can I get an 8 digit on where to find this shattered sky, and the falling pieces thereof?

I understand the mentality, though I fight against it. The scaling back of Vssystem.com is, I think, merely the 'straw that broke the camels back', as it were. I mean, there are only two sets a year, so right there, that's a HUGE cutback. The limited print runs of MVL and DCL make it almost impossible to get new cards, and if MUN is anything like that, you'll have to start forking over 200+ dollars just to get the rares to build a sorta-okay deck - and God forbid you want to get playsets of all the Legend support for your favorite character. And on top of all that, in yet another cost-cutting maneuver, no more articles?

I think it's kind of a cool direction we're going in as a community, but I find it hard to believe that things are 'going well' right now, when it comes to how UDE is thinking about VS. I'm in for the long haul, as long as I can be. Hell, after UDE stops printing cards, I'll just keep making my own and printing those out. But, I can definitely see why people take the cost-cutting as just another way for Vs to be phased out of existence.

Seventh, I understand your points. I, to a point, think they're valid. I do have to say that in my gaming experience what they're doing will basically make the game invincible. They're scaling it back a degree, yes. But a game basically run by the players, where UDE's only real obligation is sending the PDFs to the printing press, can't be stopped. It's a gold mine in that situation. They're going for stabilization.

AEG has 14 paid employees. That includes President John Zinser and his Secretary. They've maintained robust events and good prize support for years on that model. They maintain their games on every inhabited continent. For the love of pete, they have regionals in South Africa. Last I checked, Africa wasn't considered a major gaming hub They do all of that with 12 paid employees, and motivated playerbase. I've seen and been part of a game run by the players. It works, and it's immune to market conditions for the most part because the overhead is so low.

I think the playercentric method UDE is employing will insure it outlasts most games on the market today.

To a degree, I agree with you. One difference here, of course, is the cost of licensing these characters. Marvel and DC are not cheap licenses to keep.

While I do agree that the playercentric method is fine and dandy for me, a lot of the complaining you'll hear about the scaling back is the last vestiges of the Old Realm - Vs was created, after all, as a big money tourny style game, and a lot of people still badly want that level of competition. Basically, every single decision UDE has made in recent memory has been further and further away from what drew them to love the game. They're sticking in there, despite all this - and, I don't hesitate to point out, despite barbs from some of the more vehemently positive Realmers - but they want to make it known that they don't want the game to disappear.

Neither do we, obviously. But the two groups have a very keen difference of definition when it comes to disappearance.

I think your war stories about Lord of the 5 Rings supports your argument.

I also think that the vestigal complaining is mainly due to the original marketing strategy of Vs. System: Build a Pro Tour and they will come.

Luckily, we maintained a supportive, positive community despite the fact that our OP was based on the Magic model. The Magic model breeds dicks, and yet our social club was (for the most part) very friendly and caring.

Now that the money is gone, and the focus is on original art and uncut sheets and Hobby League and personal empowerment via blog awards, the final remnants of the elitist competitive culture will fade away. It would have been nice to start with the casual emphasis at first, but wishes are not horses.

It is a New Day Rising (Husker Du FTW), and everyone will eventually embrace it.

I was really thrilled to see the influx of blogs, but has anybody noticed the even larger influx now that prizes were announced?:p

I'm just saying.

It's all good, the more people talk about VS, the more VS will get played, and everyone gets equal exposure as a writer.

Bravo gentlemen.

Ultimately, it's in the company's best interest to take advantage of the free "labor" offered by the most dedicated fans of their product. If people are willing to run events, let them. If people are willing to write about and advertise the game, let them. Not only does it save UDE money by not having to do those things in house, or pay as much for them, but it also makes those players more motivated by being empowered. Those players have a hand in the success of the game.

While it is easy to see the downside of UDE doesn't want to invest a lot of money in Vs. System ... that isn't ANY different from the first big cut. Everything since the "no more mutants ... I mean PCs" has been mostly just trims, or in a few cases, we've seen some minor [compared to what has been cut] expendetures.

They have adapted well to the new model. They've found ways of making prizes that are cheap for them to make but are VERY valuable to their customers. Full sets, foil or otherwise, of Marvel Legends is quite the catch, and the DCX stuff is a pretty good seller on eBay, etc.

The secondary market is up and boxes are selling out. Hopefully some stores catch on to this and start seeing Vs. as something they want to be carrying [when they have the chance]. With the ammount of time until Marvel Universe hits, the people at UDE should know how well Marvel Legends and DC Legends did. Stores and Distributors should hopefully know the ammount of demand that they had for those sets and be able to see that a larger print run than those sets is necessary. And, if they do make a larger print run that STILL sells out ... that's more profit, since a larger print run should be slightly cheaper per box to produce, not to mention that even if they make the same per box profit, more boxes is more profit.

My God, Husker Du? Stu, it's 8:13 in the morning and I have a bad haircut. Too early for Husker Du. How about some Rusted Root while we're at it? Maybe The Milkmen?

On Topic: DC and Marvel aren't cheap licenses, which makes keeping the game in the black that much harder. The Kneejerk 'Oh yeah, no more X' methods aren't pleasant I agree. UDE has made mistakes. They will continue to screw up on some level until long past our expiration dates. It's a terrible disease called humanity.

The transition could've been smoother, yes. But then again I've never played a money game because of the phallus replication effect(Everyone becomes a dick). If money made you love Vs, then you play Vs because you love money not because you love the game. That's like me divorcing my wife because she stopped putting out. If that ever happened, I'd like to think our interpersonal relationship is strong enough to withstand it. I love sechs, but I love my wife more. I love money, but I love my Art more.

As far as the Barbs from those from those whose asses house small stars... This is a dream for some. They get to be in charge of their game. Self empowerment. When someone attacks your dream, you tend to do what you need to as far as fighting for said dream. I don't think the barbs have meant to be 'STFU!' I think they are meant more along the lines of 'Be constructive. This is where we are'. No malice. We're all part of the same community. One team, one fight.

I couldn't agree with you more Stu. The magic model breeds a bunch of jerks with everyone playing with the same uber deck just so they can get some prize money. I fell in love with VS. because of the strategy of the game and the vast possibilties. Not so I could put fate artifacts in every deck I build because it is broken.

I like to play the characters I love and if I can make those characters into a formidable deck then that's just icing on the cake. Fortunately the people I play with in hobby league and in the local marquee events feel the same way and it keeps the game fun.

I left magic because I got tired of showing up at events and seeing two decks being played and if you were not playing one of those decks you had no chance.

A player based community where the company listens to the players is nothing but good for this game. I also think that UDE will have a better idea about production numbers now and we will not see the shortages again as we did with Marvel Legends. I think DC legends was more abundant and for the most part seems to still be available for re-order almost three months later. I think UDE is working out the bugs to keep "our" game in production for some time to come.

I say good riddance to the pro tour. Long live the casual player.

I didn't read many of the posts in this thread but is it too much to ask for you to actually make a thread title that tells what's to be expected in the thread as opposed to random passages that only make sense to you, Soshi?

Makes perfect sense to me. It is commenting on people talking about the VsSystem.com articles going away being a sign that the sky is falling. I.e. VsSystem.com is a piece of the sky that has fallen.

Much as I empathize with what you are saying, there are still things that worry me.

There won't be as much writing on the hub site, and that is a shame. I don't enjoy blogs, I enjoy professional and edited writing (yours included, btw). I eat up all the articles I get a chance to read.

Product scarcity is a bit too redic. I'm glad they made the product non-readily available to the internet so stores have a chance, but our local store has had to buy up the cases from the other stores; and had to scounge to get us boxes. We're down to 2 drafts worth of boxes left, and nobody can buy individual product in Atlanta; and we only have that because Tony, our local store owner, has put in a LOT of effort for his customers to secure this product in the first place. It'll be a shame when, in two weeks, we might not get to draft again till July.

So sorry you got derailed. Sorry if I don't enjoy reading through a billion blogs to get decent VS news. Sorry I complain that it seems nearly impossible to be a consumer for this game these days. The good news is that we are slowly getting a trickle of new players in, but these will disapear if they can't buy product.

Love the game, hate the company.

And you would have gathered all that from the title? You must be a smarter man than I.

Not to mention there's like 10 threads he's started like this.

Anyways I'll stop because I made my point and don't want to dwell on it.

Apology accepted, opinion valid. I never have a problem with dissent when it is written without bitterness and bile.

Stay tuned, I know you will. They may get better at the important stuff, and this really is an energizing idea for the fluff.

If I TELL you what's expected, I tend to get what's expected. What are expected and what people actually feel are normally radically different. That and what I write makes sense to me.

Also: This is a thread for us to constructively discuss peoples' problems with the Vs changes.

Also: milk in bags.

In response to you Dave: I think UDE misunderestimated the tenacity of the community. They printed what they thought would sell, and found out they were wrong. The Company will make mistakes, but the game will endure. I think we're at a point where we can grumble about the decisions, but the future of the game shouldn't be in question. UDE knows there's more a market than they thought, and thus they will project better sales and thus they will print more. It's a work in progress, and it seems to be progressing slowly but surely.