i just wanted to hear everyones thought on that modern age match up between worlds finest ( and to some regard jla worlds finest) vs fantastic 4? i wasnt around for the modern age finals at mw chicago. so i dont know if worlds finest won because of miss drops or play errors or is world finest just a supieror deck to family of 4??

in my opinion ff4 has a better late game than worlds finest with silver surfer and all. i think it all comes down to attrition. but im looking for insight from anyone who actually tested or have seen this match up in action.
i have only done mental vs on this matter since no one i know actually owns a family of 4 deck. so what do you all think??

Here is how my FF deck faired against the winning WF deck:

http://www.geocities.com/majesticno1...Chi_2008a.html

It's Round 4 and the Qtrs of the Top8.

Basically, it's a very tough match, either way. If the WF deck is sporting 8 negation cards, then it is very tough for the FF deck to get their blues in. However, the game normally does get to turn 8, and it's basically Surfer vs Kara a that point, and as long as the FF player has character cards to discard for Surfer's ability, the FF deck should have the advantage.

FF has the advantage for the most part. It's tough to say WHAT kind of World's Finest, as there's so many variations like At their Finest, Barbara 3 Main, Batman 3 Main, Powergirl/Superman on 4, Kate Kane/Superman 5 on 5, etc.

The only thing I hate (or love, when I'm not against it) about World's Finest is the negate. If WF uses its negate properly, it can own Fantastic Four.

But I still think Fantastic Four is better. hehehe :)

what I would like to know is why doesn't the deck (superman/batman) run a copy of HAB? it seems like it would be an auto-include considering people were using omnipotence as tech. Not enough search maybe? I could understand if alfred was busy fetching other things.

I mean, 4v2. :rolleyes:

FF. They just have more stuff to use.

All right, here's a breakdown:

Turn 1: WF's options are Maggie, Alfred, or Harvey. FF has nothing.

Turn 2: WF's options are Krypto, Superbots if you hit Maggie, or Huntress. Krypto is okay but he can't attack until turn 4 if you miss a 1. FF on the other hand has Human Torch which is a free pump and Luke Cage, which will allow the deck to match draw against Oracle.

Turn 3: It's very interesting. Oracle will allow enough draw to match attrition against FF's ridiculous amount of pumps and Mr. Fantastic, while Batman DWF negates a few pumps and enables Brains and Brawn and From the Darkness. However Invisible Woman almost makes sure FF hits the late game relatively unscathed and forces you to negate their Force Field over a relevant Beatdown or search.

Turn 4: Mr. Fantastic is pretty much ridic. He's a natural out against all the negation on their search, and they want odds so it's a free filter draw. His stats mean WF's options of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Power Girl need a pump to stun him. This is where FF starts to pull away by wasting all that card draw just to match board attrition.

Turn 5: Thing pretty much beats every WF option except maybe DCL Superman, and that's if they don't play a Only Human that goes through. Once again, even if you get through his big stats, they're only taking 5 ever.

Turn 6: Human Torch and She-Hulk in some builds are troublesome. Their high attacks mean you have to attribute a 5 to force through their defense, and a 6 to hopefully one-way stun Thing (Doubt it).

Turn 7: They. wreck. you. I'm pretty sure the only reason why Patrick's particular build was having trouble against Javier was because Deterrgent is good against a non-PA FF deck. All FF has to do is stun the board enough so they don't die. The best possible case for you is that they replace Thing 5 with Thing 7.

Turn 8: You simply lose if they discard for Surfer. It's no question.


The key thing: If FF miss ENOUGH drops (Just once isn't enough sometimes), then WF can win. CAN win.

There are some cards that don't Get played that could In WF (they have so many options for the deck) For Example Best of the Best, can Be huge, against FF as their dudes are So big.

Omnipotence Calling Clobber or FFP is also Pretty Good.

If you go All out Negate, (4x From the Shadows, 4x BGYT, EE), you still cant really force them to miss drops like other decks, cause they draw so many cards, choosing which one to negate and when is key.

WF also would have to be playing Either Hidden Hate and an Attacking 2 drop (Krypto or Bots with Maggie) or more pumps than you would normally Play, (like beatdown and Soaring)

Kate is Super Important, if they aren't Running PA, or you are ready for it with Negate. As is Batman DWF. Batman FM is pretty much blank against FF.

Deterrent Force is also Super Important here, as if you can keep him Unstunned on 7, (not Impossible if you play Best or Have a meaty visible 6 drop) He makes them playing Surfer Much easier to deal with.

If you can fit all that in and draw well, then you can win, but Basic FF, has advantage over most WF builds, their guys are bigger, and so are their pumps.

I think it's a tough match on both sides. The FF have some amazingly good combat pumps at their disposal but WF runs/can run a lot of negation and a lot of defense. Even getting to turn eight and beyond doesn't necessarily guarantee a win for F4 because 6-drop Batman can just negate Surfer's ability unless you've used an Only Human on him or you've flipped an Omnipotence and called "Batman" (although I would worry about calling other things like Bat Got Your Tongue).

At this point, I'm really on the fence about what will be good tech aside from Skreee. I think Omnipotence is better than Pathetic Attempt but running Have a Blast on the idea that lots of people will play Omnipotence isn't necessarily a bad idea.

Actually batman can't Negate Surfer because Surfer is a Triggered power, much in the way In the old days of Vs 8 drop Ras Al Ghul couldn't stop him then.

I tested this match-up quite a bit and I went literally like 2-37 against F4. The problem with the match-up is it's so hard to make good attacks in between to the + 3 and up DEF pumps on their guys with already over sized problems and Force Field Projection.

At the same time, you can't try to win by stalling out since you have no way to deal with Silver Surfer.

At the MW: LA, I barely beat Brian Foley - I was WF vs his F4 - even after he replaced his three, underdropped on seven, and skipped his eight.

JLA World's Finest is much better because Wonder Woman can stop both Family of Four and has 8 attack.

Couldn't adding Only Human to the WF deck give it more game against F4? It'll remove Invisible Woman's effect, allowing WF to deal some solid breakthrough. It'll negate Surfer's effect, allowing you to keep initiative on the critical turn. And it'll force the F4 player to use Human Torch (6) before the combat phase.

Thoughts?

Oh, and I've been slowly adding more JLA to my WF deck, and Hal and Martian Manhunter have been pretty good at finishing the game even after Surfer steals the init.

I actually tested Only Human. The card is very lackluster. It really does nothing for you though except on turn eight - your natural six already negates their Torch and they will rarely want to dome you with it unless you're already incredibly behind. I never actually tried to blank Sue with it since every time I dear it I held on to it for deal life.

Even when you get to turn eight you need to hope they're not holding any Pathetic Attempts, which is annoying since the Miguel's build - which is more or less the standard - has like four. I could never count on having negations to force it since you probably already expended it through the course of the game to stop other more directly relevant things like 4FP.

Some problems, mainly ROOM. I have hard enough time nowadays just to put the normal stuff like At their Finest and negation, even starting to cut the team-up down to two sometimes.

Also, if they run PA, that means you have to negate it and that means less negating their pumps/search/Only Human

Only Human isn't really great in the first place for WF decks anyway.

The Thing With Only human is, if you are gonna get an Effect through and not have them PA it, there are much better options like Deterrent Force and best of the Best. Dealing BEL isn't gona happen very often anyway, as their dudes are very large, dealing BEL to a 9 def 4 and a 11 Def 5 isn't really a goal you need to get the stun.