...but figured I'd ask anyway.

1. I have Appa Ali Apsa on the board. He's teamed up with Crime Lords.
2. I remove Appa Ali Apsa from the game with Cold Storage.

3. I attack an opposing character. That opponent exhausts another character to reinforce the defender.

4. I KO Cold Storage to bring Appa back. The opponent "loses and can't gain" reinforcement.

5. I play another Cold Storage to remove him again.

My question:: When Appa entered play, the defender "loses" reinforcement (killing it if it's already active), and "can't gain" it (stopping a killed reinforcement from being re-applied). When Appa leaves, it's definitely clear to me that the "can't gain" part is cancelled, as it's a continuous modifier produced by Appa's presence.

What's confusing me is the "loses" part. "Loses" seems like an "instantaneous" kind of effect, that fires once to cut out reinforcement, and then the "can't gain" part would generally take over and prevent it over time. But if you the "can't gain" is lost, is the "loses" also ignored?

I see two options here:

1. The "Loses" is a continuous modifier just like the "can't gain", and when Appa runs away, all previously applied reinforcement comes back.

2. The "Loses" is an instantaneous effect that essentially "negates" all reinforcement created by a timestamped effect before it was Lost. So the manual reinforcement is cancelled, but an "ongoing" reinforcement effect like Invisible Woman's would reassert itself.

Yikes. Just writing all that down has me even more confused than before. :confused:

His effects are only present when he is. He generates a continuous modifier which is no longer in effect when he is removed from play.

That is loses is only due to his presence.

If you remove him again the character is reinforced again, because his modifier is off the field.

If you need more we can dig deeper.

I agree with Kariggi.

When AAA gets into play the character will loose the reinforcement it has because AAA text is active. Once AAA leaves play again the opponent can reinforce the character again because AAA's effect is no longer in play. While he does create a continuous modifier it only works while he is in play.

I think you're misunderstanding the question... I know how continuous modifiers work, hence my comment about there being no confusion about the "can't gain" not being in effect anymore.

I'm just looking for some clarification on whether the "loses" bit is continuous or instantaneous, because that verb is used as both in VS ("Lose 5 endurance" is instantaneous, "Lose flight this turn" is continuous), and I'm not sure how it's being applied here, since there's no time stamp to refer to.

Basically, is it:

[Lose][Can't Gain ------------------------>

or

[Lose -------------------------->
[Can't Gain --------------------->

Because effectively, once it's caused the "loss" the first time, it doesn't really do anything ever again, since the continuation is handled by the "can't gain" in 99.999% of cases.

It like you lose your tongue in the presence of the great wizard mung, but once he's away others can again here what you have to say.

Loses is loses in his presence while his text is active, not loses as in won't be able to find as soon as he's gone again.

...obviously you do not, know how continuous modifiers work.

*stabs Kariggi with his own sharpened femur*

Will you Marrow me Spud?

Well the way I see it working is:

Loose. (once it's lost it's lost, the can't gain seals the deal)
Can't Gain---------------->


What this makes me wonder is if there is a continuous modifier that grants the defender reinforcement like lets say New King in Town. What happens if the defender meets all the requirements of New King in Town and AAA is in play?

Loses > Has
Can't > Can

So any reinforcement effects are shut down by Appa's presence.

But return if he leaves the field.

can't > can

That answers my question.

Actually I just scoop because not only did you play AAA, but you freakin' played Crime Lords, and I didn't beat you yet. Problem solved.

I would say that loses is instantaneous. AAA comes into play and the character loses the reinforcement he just had. Then AAA leaves play and the opponent could again give him reinforcement through another method.

Nope he just gets it back.

It like a reinforcement suppression field when you get out of the field your super powers return.

To put it to bed---if you remove Appa Ali Apsa with Cold Storage, the opponent's character will once again be reinforced from his earlier game-based reinforcement effect. Appa Ali Apsa has a continuous power, which therefore generates a continuous modifier, not a one-shot one. (Which I'm assuming is what you would mean by "instantaneous effect," since that phrase hurts me inside.) One-shot modifiers will only be generated by resolving effects. Which is good, since as you've discovered, trying to imagine a continuous one-shot modifier is just awkward, it doesn't work right.

While Appa Ali Apsa is in play, the opponent's reinforcement modifier is still there; the character just can't end up reinforced because of AAA, stripping earlier-timestamped reinforcement and preventing later-timestamped reinforcement from being gained. Once AAA is out of play, he's not generating his continuous modifier, and the reinforcement modifier is still there, so the character is reinforced with no problems.

Btw, I'm not sure why you'd differentiate between game-based reinforcement and power-generated reinforcement. Both are continuous modifiers, so even in your Escher-esque view of Appa's power, it seems like they'd still function the same.