okay heres a situation that came up when i was playing against my friends exiles deck i want to know if this is legal. its turn 4 and he lays his resource. he has proteus, sage, mariko, illyana, and proudstar shifted with 1 counter and blink 3 drop with 2. he brings in blink and chains beak saves the day to blinks effect shifting her out with 2 counters and then adds a counter to everyone including herself putting her at 3 again. he then shifts in proteus then blink again putting everybody to 3 counters then shifts proudstar followed by illyana. he then brings in mariko saying that i burn for 12 since blink entered play twice then he brings in sage drawing 6 cards. my questions are 1) can beak saves the day be used with 3 drop blink like that? and 2) does sage and mariko count blink everytime she entered play when she shifted in then out and then back again or is she considered to have came into play once since it was the same character that entered play? thanx i really hope someone can answer this for me. i think beak saves works like that but im not sure bout blink shifting multiple times with sage and or mariko would work like that.

I don't believe that is legal at all. This is why: Blink comes into play and gives counters. That's it. Then, Beak Saves the Day goes off, removing her from the game with 2 counters. Then goes Proteus and we have the second situation.

If you do it the way I posted, then yes, Blink enters play twice. If you do it the way your friend did, smack yourself for that is incorrect.

Speedy. Blink's effect goes on the chain, just like everything else. While Blink's effect is on the chain, you can add Beak saves the day to the chain. Beak saves the day goes off first, removing blink with 2 counters. Then, blink's effect resolves putting a counter on all characters including blink.

About Question 2, I have absolutely no idea. I would think it counts, but I would like to see an official ruling. If a character is beak saves the day'd and brought back in, does the character count as coming into play twice? That is the question.

For both Sage and Mariko, both are phrased "for each character you control that entered play this turn." To do that, you count how many characters you control, then subtract all the characters that you control that entered play on a different turn.

The main thing you pay attention to in the sentence is the "each character you control", then add on the "entered play this turn". If it had been phrased more like "for each time that a character entered play under your control this turn", then that would be different.

So at best, you can only burn for as many characters as you control. At worst, for 2.

You absolutely can't double-count; Mariko and Sage count how many characters you control that entered play this turn. You control 1 Blink, not 2.


It's also worth mentioning that a card which changes zones is no longer the same card. Blink in play is not the same card as the Blink who was RFG shifted, and neither of them is the same as the Blink who was in play earlier this turn. So there's no such thing as a card that entered play twice---no matter what else happened this turn, the Blink you control came into play just once. This point isn't necessary for this question, but you should be sure to remember it if you're playing with or against Exiles.


Edit: To help along Pi's hypothetical wording, here are two entries from the Legion FAQ.

That very much clears that up. So if I recruited a character and later lost it due to uniqueness it does not count toward Mariko/Sage according to that wording. Or am I reading that incorrectly?

Example:

I'm playing Exiles I have 5 characters shifted: Magik, Sage, Mariko, Blink (3), and Blink (5).

I recruit Blink (3) and resolve her effect [1 character recruited this turn]. I recruit Magik [2]. I recruit Blink (5) [3]. Uniqueness check to KO my 3 drop Blink. I recruit Sage [4]. Sage resolves. I recruit Mariko [5]. Mariko resolves.

Since I only control 4 of the 5 characters I recruited this turn, are you saying I draw 3 and burn for 8, or does that KO'd Blink (3) count to draw 4 and burn for 10?

To plagiarize from my previous post:Though the Exiles can do some tricky things, and may sometimes have complex timing, this aspect of Mariko and Sage is actually relatively straight-forward, don't over-think it. They count characters you currently control, just like Order and Chaos in the Legion FAQ excerpt.

Mariko and Sage don't check how many characters you brought into play this turn total, they would have to be worded like T-Jet to work that way. They check within the characters you control, to see how many of those came into play this turn.

Hero, my breakdown of question 1 is the correct ruling though, right?

Thanks HC!

I've been all over the place with that one.

Yeah, that's an accurate breakdown of the timing.

this may be a dumb question...

my question can you spend 0 resource to shift a card from hand to have it shifted with 0 shift counters. i ask this because the wording of panoptichron says to shift a character but with 0 shift counters. just wondering if its possivle to do it from hand???



Cost: 3 Panoptichron
[Activate] -> Remove target Exiles character you control from the game shifted. Put X shift counters on another shifted card you own, where X is that Exiles character's cost. Use only during your recruit step.

SHIFT KEYWORD
Pay 1 or more resource points >>> Remove this card from the game shifted with that many shift counters. Use only if this card is in your hand.

Pay 1 resource point >>> Put a shift counter on this card. Use only if this card is shifted.

Remove X shift counters >>> Shift this card into play if you control X or more resources, where X is its cost. Use only during your recruit step.

Err, you may want to give the definition of Shift another reading.

As HC is saying, if you read the rules on the Shift keyword, to Shift a character out using Shift (as a keyword), you have to pay 1 or more resource points. Characters can be removed from the game shifted with 0 shift counters, but to use Shift initially, you have to pay the resource points.

Shift as a concept has no scruples about a card being removed from the game shifted with no counters (lots of Exiles cards have you remove counters for effects, so you can remove a counter from a guy with only one), but as a keyword, to shift a card out, you have to pay 1 or more resource points. Panoptichron doesn't put shift counters on when shifting out, as it doesn't follow the keyword, but removes from the game shifted under its own power.

Thanks alot that clears everything up