What PL said above goes for me as well, although I HAVE reported people in the past. If you cursed, or tried to bypass the language filters, then you deserved the warning points. There are still a few minors that visit the site. Hopefully you will think a little more next time before you do it again. That's why there are warning points.

And as far as the 'room for interpretation', well lots of rules are up for interpretation. We just gave you the actual rule as it is right now. You didn't even thank us for our help. Instead, you slander us. Gee, thanks a lot.

hold the phone!!!

It was stated earlier that when a character shows KO on their dial they are then not in the game anymore and therefore do not get to use team abilites or actions.....


My point is what is the difference between if I attack MR. F and ko him with a normal attack and I PW him. The team ability does not occur when the attack happens. It occurs when the piece is KO'ed.

I believe that there is a problem with the way that rules are read at times. I see power wave as cancelling out powers that are used or useful when the piece is alive...IE wildcard, batman ally, JSA, and powers that reduce damage or ellicit re-rolls.

How can you say that if you KO Mr. F with pw that his team ability is not capable of being used? If I attack with a normal attack, he is still KO'ed and that is WHEN the rest of the team heals, not before the KO occurs.

It just does not make sense. If you are KO'ed you are KO'ed. The team powers of SS and F4 happen after the death of the clix. Not pior and not during. After.

Whether or not this will get me in trouble I don't know, but the arbitrator is wrong.....or at least being to conservitive in the reading and wording in the description of PW, because what has been explained earlier in this thread is completely without logic.

Wow, FJ, that's a bit preachy even for you. The points don't bother me, I just thought (at first) that the way I received them seemed a little fishy, as if someone were trying to oust me from the conversation merely because I didn't do a thorough job of disguising an expletive. As far as the minors? If they're old enough to play this game & haven't heard that word yet, they either have saints for parents or live in a box & are fed 'Clix to keep them alive.

Well, for the record, I wasn't the one asking for the advice... I was the one giving an opinion that differed from yours/PL's. In response to my different opinion, I was met with insults and accusations that I must be some other dumb user that didn't agree with you two in the past. So you could look at the 'slander' more as 'reaping what you sow'. However, in hindsight I realize that my reaction was a bit hasty... As I said to PL, if you say you did not report me, I will take you at your word. Since you both took the time to post that you didn't do it, I will be man enough to say, "I apologize for the accusation." There, all better?


Shazam!06: Sorry to waste all this space on your thread!

orzo: This was what I was trying to express that was unfortunately deleted.... that the Arbiter has made a bit of a blunder in this ruling. My advice for any player out there is play what makes sense for you and the other players in friendly games... And in sanctioned tourneys, if you plan to make use of certain abilities that might logically (to you) be outside PWave's 'ignore' feature (namely for me these are Mystics/Crossgen, Combat Reflexes, F4/SS) discuss with the Judge before you play and get HIS opinion on the matter. At least you'll know ahead of game time what that Judge's ruling will be.

Here is a question.

What do the wordings for say Psychic blast, and Exploit weakness say? Do they read similar to Pulsewave?

I know that there are team abilities that are included with pulsewave because of the stealth of batman/ kabuki, but that is for the line of fire/ line of sight stuff.

My point is that I can not see how pulsewave cancels a power that is activiated WHEN a click is KOed. It has been stated that once the click is KOed they are no longer on the board and there for not in play, however I beleive in the instance of the fantastic four, the click that is KOed is NOT the one that is using their team abiltiy.

The fantastic four see a comrade go down and they all heal. The team ability is used by the LIVING F4 members. There fore unless another F4 player was in the range of PW as well, their team ability is still functioning. When their teammate is KOed they heal.

This is not the Xmen that have to both be alive for one or the other to take clicks. This is when the remaining F4 team sees another memeber get KOed they heal.....themselves....one click.

Crossgen and mystics I can see that power wave would negate the retaliation and I am fine with that. But F4 team ability is not one character healing another......it is the fact that one of their teammates has fallen that activites THEIR individual team ability to heal one click and continue to fight on!


If this made sense let me know.

PL it does clarify the argument. I don't particullarly agree that this is the way that WK originally thought that things would play out when they made the power, but beig of the legal perfession, I can greatly appreciate "rule lawyering". Not saying that anyone is doing this. Just that I believe that the wording of the power is such that it lends itself to the situation.

can PW be perplexed up? or can that only be done if there is only one character that is going to take damage from the attack? Some clarification on this matter would be nice as well.


Thanks for your time.....always a pleasure.

You can only Perplex up the damage when --

1) The Perplexer is outside the half-range of the attacker (or is the attacker himself), and
2) There is only one figure within the half-range of the attacker.

You can Perplex up any of the other combat stats on the attacker, as long as the Perplexer is outside the half-range of the attacker,.

Unfortunately, in any game played in a tournament setting with prizes at stake, 'lawyering' will win out over logic every time. 'Players' try to play what makes the most sense... The 'rules lawyers' don't really care about sense, only the Judge's or Arbiter's decision matters (and they usually make their team accordingly, on the more advantageous side of the decision).

That said, wouldn't it be nice if the FAQ could update to a better 'ignores' line in PW to satisfy both lawyers and players? To avoid uncertainty with what PW is currently ruled to be able to do, the line should read:
" For the duration of this ranged combat action, Pulse Wave ignores all powers & TAs possessed by characters in its attack range."
(Saying only the attack does the 'ignoring' leaves us with a little room for misinterpretation of the Arbiter's decision, since the definition of 'attack' only mentions an attack roll to see whether a character hits another, NOT the following damage dealt and damage taken steps that result.)

Personally, I'd like to see a PW closer to the original description, which was "This character's ranged combat attack can affect every figure within half its range value." In this case, the 'ignores' line would read:
"For determining line of fire and legal targets, Pulse Wave ignores all powers & TAs possessed by characters in its attack range."
(Since this line falls between sentences talking about LOF, this would seem to be much closer to what a Pulse Wave should logically do - it blasts out in all directions, paying no attention to Stealthy or Shapechanging abilities since it's not trying to hit any specific target... but since it is still a physical/energy attack, targets could still use their damage reducing and reactive powers/TAs.)

In any case, the glossary could use a little polishing. Giving PW's 'ignore' an ability to treat ALL powers of its targets 'as if they didn't exist or happen' is too close to 'countering' abilities, something that the FAQ specifically states PWave does not do. No matter what the Arbiter might say to explain this blunder, he took the 'ignores' line too far. Let's remember what PW does say: "This attack ignores..." It says nothing of any other figure having to ignore the abilities of the targets. The ATTACK is not affected by or treats targets' abilities as if they don't exist or happen for purposes of resisting/avoiding the ATTACK only - that should NOT translate into your other FF/SS characters having to treat the power as if it's no longer there.

Funky....agreed agreed agreed!

But alas it is not meant to be. There must be to much abuse of the SS and F4 abilities, that they should be controlled through this method of attack! LOL

I have actually never seen a F4 or SS person ever played on a team........ever....and that is really strange...especially for the F4 team ability....you would think with the wild card "stuff" that runs rampet....it would be out there


On second thought there is the invisible girl that everyone uses....but I am not sure if she has the F4 team ability or not...I dont have one......and yet I still win at tournaments......hmmmm.

LOL

Question
If I use power wave on a group of figs all huddled around invisible girl and her 18 shared defense.....does the power wave then turn off the shared defense and the attack roll is then compared to the defense found on their individual dials.

Does invisible girl have to be in range? Or is the target that is using the shared defense considered not capable of using the defense because the attack is Powerwave?

I've used the FF many times both in tournaments and in friendly play. (i've used the rookie once or twice but i've also fielded all of the vets in 400 pt touraments)

As for your other questions let me take a shot at answering them (another words if i'm wrong don't shot me, just politly point it out). If Invisible girl is in the range when she has share defend, it is negated. If she is outside of the range but is sharing to the people that are in it, they have the 18 (or whatever her defence is at the time) defence. But they lose all of their powers.

And yes, the rookie invisable girl has FF team abality. All members of the FF rookie through vet have FF team abality.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hope I'm not just repeating something...

The description of Pulse Wave states that the "attack" ignores all team abilities etc. Meaning that they don't exist to the attack...not to the game as a whole. I don't see where it states anything is turned off or the such like Outwit...It's simply saying that the attack, the pulse wave itself, ignores(pays no attention) abilities. I don't see how that negates the FFs ability in the game.